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RE: From Seminary to Atheism
March 21, 2013 at 1:01 pm
Welcome, thatwhichisnt.
Our stories share some similarities. It's important to recognize that religious belief is anchored by a set of beliefs or suppositions that we accept uncritically. Once you overcome the programming, you can see the extent to which theists are still hobbled by that; note how often their arguments in favor of god's existence rely on the assumption that god exists. It's particularly humbling when you can see yourself making those same arguments in the past, but so incredibly liberating to realize that you've shaken off chains that you did not know you were bound with.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
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RE: From Seminary to Atheism
March 21, 2013 at 1:10 pm
(March 21, 2013 at 1:01 pm)Tonus Wrote: Welcome, thatwhichisnt.
Our stories share some similarities. It's important to recognize that religious belief is anchored by a set of beliefs or suppositions that we accept uncritically. Once you overcome the programming, you can see the extent to which theists are still hobbled by that; note how often their arguments in favor of god's existence rely on the assumption that god exists. It's particularly humbling when you can see yourself making those same arguments in the past, but so incredibly liberating to realize that you've shaken off chains that you did not know you were bound with.
Indeed. It is also weird to hear people speak the way I used to. Many times I have thought to myself, "Holy shit, I sounded crazy". If Christianity, or any other religion as well, were smaller it would be considered a cult.
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RE: From Seminary to Atheism
March 21, 2013 at 1:11 pm
thatwhichisnt Wrote:I stopped studying doctrine, and instead focused my attention on the fundamentals. What is the evidence that points to the inerrancy of Scripture? What is the historical proof to point to the divinity, if even the existence, of Christ? How did the universe originate, along with the species on the Earth? I started to listen to debates and lectures by the opposing “faction”, such as: Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and the like. What I have learned and discovered is so vast that I do not have the time nor energy to write here. I can simply say this; there is an irreconcilable difference between reality, reason, and the Bible. Even the moral teachings of the Bible are founded in immorality. We are not here because of divine creation. Our purpose in life is not given to us, but we make it ourself. Our life is not meaningless, we create our own meaning.
THIS. I love it and can relate to it 100%.
I find it so curious that many former Christians once reached this stage that you and I reached: we fervently think Christianity is so flipping convincing that we seek to "formally" prove our assumptions, and thus begins the process of deconversion via realising how wrong and naive we were about our religion. What breaks my heart is those that pursue this path, but aren't willing to accept the fundamental flaws in Christianity.
""We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light." ~ Plato
Freedom is most definitely found in the cold hard truths of nature. Some people just need to grow out of their culture's comfort zone.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
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RE: From Seminary to Atheism
March 21, 2013 at 1:37 pm
First, allow me to say welcome.
Second, I gotta ask you about this line below:
(March 21, 2013 at 10:34 am)thatwhichisnt Wrote: *I been told some of this post sounds fairly arrogant. Wasn't my intention, but in the spirit of the late Hitchens, I will take his advice of not worrying about being called such*
Now, since there was no indication on the post in question that it was edited, is this cut-n-paste from another forum or blog?
If it's not cut-n-paste from pre-written material, why not change "Wasn't my intention" to "Isn't my intention"?
And if you did in fact edit after posting, which mod are you? 'Cause I been smeeling smelling dirty socks a lot lately... 
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RE: From Seminary to Atheism
March 21, 2013 at 2:14 pm
Welcome aboard!
Have you ever heard of the Clergy Project? http://www.clergyproject.org/
You may want to check them out.
(March 21, 2013 at 10:34 am)thatwhichisnt Wrote: The foundations of Christianity are akin to the old tale of humpty-dumpty. Not just in historical validity, but spirit as well. One small gust of reason and the shattering would be monumental.
Oh, how I wish this were true for believers.
In the debates I've been involved in, after refuting one argument after another, they will usually say something like, "You have strengthened my faith". Many times they will thank me for it!
I translate this as meaning, "Using logic and evidence, you have refuted every one of my arguments, yet I will continue to believe anyway for emotional reasons".
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: From Seminary to Atheism
March 21, 2013 at 2:22 pm
(March 21, 2013 at 1:37 pm)catfish Wrote: Now, since there was no indication on the post in question that it was edited, is this cut-n-paste from another forum or blog?
If it's not cut-n-paste from pre-written material, why not change "Wasn't my intention" to "Isn't my intention"?
And if you did in fact edit after posting, which mod are you? 'Cause I been smeeling smelling dirty socks a lot lately...
Perhaps, but you should be carefull throwing accusations around. Get the fuck over the fact that DP owned you. back them up.
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RE: From Seminary to Atheism
March 21, 2013 at 2:36 pm
(March 21, 2013 at 1:37 pm)catfish Wrote: And if you did in fact edit after posting, which mod are you? 'Cause I been smeeling smelling dirty socks a lot lately...
Mods can't edit posts without the post showing as edited. IIRC, you have been told this before.
Stop throwing around public accusations. Leave the moderation to the staff, please. As always, if you think a post is in violation of the rules, report it.
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RE: From Seminary to Atheism
March 21, 2013 at 2:39 pm
(This post was last modified: March 21, 2013 at 2:39 pm by Kayenneh.)
Catfish Wrote:And if you did in fact edit after posting, which mod are you?
Silly Catty, don't you know that anyone can edit their own posts within a time limit?
Quote:'Cause I been smeeling smelling dirty socks a lot lately...
Well, stop sniffing them and do your laundry! 
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura
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RE: From Seminary to Atheism
March 21, 2013 at 3:36 pm
(This post was last modified: March 21, 2013 at 3:48 pm by thatwhichisnt.)
I originally wrote this for another forum I am a member of. When I found this community I decided to post it after a little editing.
(March 21, 2013 at 2:14 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Welcome aboard!
Have you ever heard of the Clergy Project? http://www.clergyproject.org/
You may want to check them out.
(March 21, 2013 at 10:34 am)thatwhichisnt Wrote: The foundations of Christianity are akin to the old tale of humpty-dumpty. Not just in historical validity, but spirit as well. One small gust of reason and the shattering would be monumental.
Oh, how I wish this were true for believers.
In the debates I've been involved in, after refuting one argument after another, they will usually say something like, "You have strengthened my faith". Many times they will thank me for it!
I translate this as meaning, "Using logic and evidence, you have refuted every one of my arguments, yet I will continue to believe anyway for emotional reasons".
Thanks for the link. I will be sure to check it out.
I can't say I wasn't one of those people before. Looking back on it there wasnt one argument which could of changed my mind. I was too heavily indoctrinated.
I know I am new to atheism, but we have a tendency of trying to shove our beliefs (or lack there of) at people in the same way as those of faith. Once the defensive walls are raised you have lost almost all hope. The best you can hope for is to plant seeds of doubt which may in time grow. HOW you talk to them is just as important as WHAT you say.
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RE: From Seminary to Atheism
March 22, 2013 at 4:19 am
(March 21, 2013 at 3:36 pm)thatwhichisnt Wrote: I originally wrote this for another forum I am a member of. When I found this community I decided to post it after a little editing.
Cool, I ended up finding your other posts.
Which leads me to ask you what experiencing the "holy spirit" feels like and if you actually experienced it, why are you an atheist?
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