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[fr0d0]

Here's Rob Bell Sae:

(This is part of the "everything is spiritual" talk he gave)
[youtube]9JmMTobaM68[/youtube]

He's also done a series of short videos called NOOMA

(sorry about the moronic ending - ignore that bit )

[Violet]

I'll have to start watching these videos sometime...

However: ~24.6kpbs dial-up internet isn't very helpful in watching 9 minute movies...

And youtube is blocked at school >_<

[Tiberius]

That's all very well except that:

(a) If you put your hand up to a 2D object, they still wouldn't feel you, since they do not feel in 3D, they feel in 2D. In order to feel you, you would have to put your hand through them, even by the smallest amount.

(b) Yes, the "spiritual" 2Der could be right, and the skeptic wrong, but the opposite can easily be true too. It's an ultimately pointless exercise where he assumes the spiritual one is correct in order to make his point.

(c ) If God were to stick his extra dimensional hand into our world, we'd see it as 3D, or at least see the effects. Does this guy think God is material or something, because most theists I meet say God isn't.

[fr0d0]

The metaphor isn't perfect, so hang him!

a. how do you know this about 2D reality?
b. well in this story we know Rob exists
c. in this 3D world Rob's hand would be immaterial (woo - double entendre )

[Tiberius]

a) An object in 2 dimensions can feel 2 dimensionally. It can only interact with other 2D objects (or 1D or 0D), and do it through 2 dimensions height and width. Rob is putting his hand directly on top of the 2D object, and "top" is not a word in the 2D universe. Unless Rob's hand goes through the 2D world (as his ring did) then nothing can be observed or felt.

b) Indeed, and that is why in this version it works out for the believer. However the possibility is still there that the "ring" did not exist, it was some 2D fluctuation or 2D shape shifter. Just because we know Rob exists doesn't mean the possibility of Rob not existing is erased from the 2D world. Like I said, he assumes he is correct in order to make his faith point. If he looks at it from the other perspective, his point leaves the believer wrong and deluded.

c) Not true. A 3D object exists on a 2D world just as much as it does in a 3D world. The only difference is that in a 2D world, 2D slices of the 3D object can only exist, rather than the entire 3D object at once. Likewise, a 4th (spatial) dimensional object would have some kind of 3D form in a 3D world.

[fr0d0]

a. maybe it depends what you mean by feel. Rob said they did feel so this is a given, even if technically incorrect
b. yes of course
c. accepted. Which would be consistent with this universe as created by an extra dimensional entity.

[Tiberius]

Ok, so then if it is a given whilst technically incorrect, what is the value of the point? Was he not simply making a symbolic reference to God "touching" people, then feeling this touch, etc.

[fr0d0]

If you like. To me the point is the closeness of God and how that isn't known.

[downbeatplumb]

Well, the two i cited were certainly interesting to me... but this comes from a girl who finds authors like Robert Lewis Stevenson and Charles Dickens easy to read and exciting.

They are both FANTASTIC authors with AMAZING stories. Sadly, a number of people at school actually have difficulty reading them

But i must wonder: do you guys see those authors in that way? Is this a question for the book club?

Sex God and Velvet Elvis? I don't know what they are about... but I'll look into Rob Bell. (The Reason For God [by Keller] was certainly interesting to me... and I'm a non-believer ^_^)

I was forced to read Kidnapped at school but found it quite boring and predictable, (although it has been quite a while since I left school, so my memory might be jaded).

I read a tale of two cities recently and can sympathize with your school friends who found him hard to read, Dickins never used one word when seven would do.
I think he was paid by the letter. Still a good read and worth the respect it gets.

---

Here's Rob Bell Sae:

(This is part of the "everything is spiritual" talk he gave)
[youtube]9JmMTobaM68[/youtube]

He's also done a series of short videos called NOOMA

(sorry about the moronic ending - ignore that bit )

And like dude how do you actually know like really know we arent all like in the Matrix.

Late night drinking sessions in your teens, gotta love em.

[Retorth]

While I disagree with what Rob Bell Sae says in his "flat land" description, because lets face it, 2D people with a 3D 'god' is utter nonsense, I really like his style of presenting. It's actually quite interesting. He got me curious as to what the heck he was talking about so I watched the whole video. Certainly wasn't boring.