Not again! -- Encouragement Please

[bladevalant546]

I understand you strife, however you have to think logically here. Deprogramming your mind takes time so feeling emotionally hurt is natural from of grief. Go out into the world and observe, go have sex or something, go read anti christian articles. You will learn that there is no some being going to strike you down. Those are manufacture feelings that you had to put on to gain acceptence from your religious peers. In short, start doing what your "heart" tells you and realize that your actions are in your control. If there is a god out there, why the hell would a universal being care more about petty things, should he be more worried about the crap world we live in? Give it time and make some non-christian friends to support you.

[freedomfromforum]

don't be a dick.

Sage wisdom.

[pineapplebunnybounce]

@Drich, I'm not speaking for monkeyman here, but as someone who has been through almost exactly what he's been through. Your words mean nothing. When you blaspheme, you want certainty that you'll be ok. Your words are not certainty, you're just another Christian (even worse, you're just another Christian on the internet). The dictionary definition of blasphemy is not certainty. Nothing is certainty until god appears himself and says what it is. Even then you'd wonder if that is the devil sent by god to trick you because having committed the sin, you have been forsaken by god.

[Creed of Heresy]

One thing I always consider is the endless fallacies and contradictions in the bible...

For example, when WAS hell created? Because, funniest thing, the Old Testament never mentions a single thing about hell. Satan himself is merely an angel who is on Yahweh's payroll to go and troll humans into breaking their faith so that Yahweh would have an excuse to blast them to pieces because Yahweh is a sadistic fuck like that. Hell only came up in the New Testament, when suddenly the religion needed a valid means of threatening people for not accepting their messiah. Mere death was not enough, especially since the polytheistic Romans who were CLEARLY not adhering to the Abrahamic god's will had clearly been untouched by Yahweh's "omnipotent" wrath (more like impotent wrath amirite guiz?). They needed something MUCH worse than a death that wasn't being visited on the heathens to threaten people, so they introduced hell.

It's all a fucking joke.

[CapnAwesome]

I think something like that kind of happened to me. I de-converted in phases with chunks of religious beliefs slowly leaving. I don't think you should stress over it too much. One way or another you'll just naturally stop worrying about such things.

[Drich]

@Drich, I'm not speaking for monkeyman here, but as someone who has been through almost exactly what he's been through. Your words mean nothing. When you blaspheme, you want certainty that you'll be ok. Your words are not certainty, you're just another Christian (even worse, you're just another Christian on the internet). The dictionary definition of blasphemy is not certainty. Nothing is certainty until god appears himself and says what it is. Even then you'd wonder if that is the devil sent by god to trick you because having committed the sin, you have been forsaken by god.

Here's an option: Do the research yourself. If this plagues you or anyone else then maybe God is put it on your heart to seek Him out starting here.

First thing you need to do is get a good Concordance/Lexicon to work with. Blueletterbible.com is a reliable one. Then start by looking up the passages and defining the all of the and terms words being used.

Then you need context to put these terms into the picture Christ is trying to illustrate. Start by reading the two books "Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit" is mentioned in, focousing on the exchange between Christ's works (More over how these words are accomplished/What force is healing the sick and feeding the hungry.) and the Pharisees reaction to it. Then to pull it all together read Where it finally comes to a head in Christ's message about Blaspheme of the Holy Spirit.

-Or- Simply ask someone who has already done this leg work and maybe ask questions about whatever you find unclear in his work..

[pineapplebunnybounce]

@Drich, I acknowledge that you're trying to help. I'm no longer going through this, obviously, since I'm an atheist now, I'll leave you to themonkeyman on whether or not that helped him. That wouldn't have helped me btw, you may not understand, you put a lot of faith in your particular interpretation of the bible, I didn't have that certainty even when I was a Christian.

[themonkeyman]

@Drich, I acknowledge that you're trying to help. I'm no longer going through this, obviously, since I'm an atheist now, I'll leave you to themonkeyman on whether or not that helped him. That wouldn't have helped me btw, you may not understand, you put a lot of faith in your particular interpretation of the bible, I didn't have that certainty even when I was a Christian.

Hi Pineapple

You have got it bang on! Your words are exactly how I am thinking, Its not that @Drich is right or wrong its the fact that there are so many different view points and opinions on the topic.

This then leads into the problem how the hell can there be 20 different views if the bible itself is said to be true. Surely there would be agreement all these people who say they have the Holy Spirit I am sure it would not give people different view points?... Would he?

I don't know if I did commit it or not, As you have seen what I have said - It can be seen that I might have but the underlying meaning to the wording used would imply that I didnt.

Ultimately it was this that started me on my path to De-conversion, How can I have a healthy life feeling hopeless. I prayed to God every day to show me one way or the other and I got no response. Zilch!

After you do this for 6 months you begin to loose faith, My girlfriend (Agnostic) said one phrase that brought it all home.

'Why would a loving God allow pedophiles / murderers / rapists into heaven but not let a Christian in for using a bad choice of words'

At that point that was a kick in my belief! What fucking God would do such a thing to Christians!, The only people who know about this sin are Christians as most other people have never heard about it, So the only people who are really at risk are Christians because they Believe in Jesus!

Take for example - My sister has not heard about this sin so wont ever be at the risk of committing it or wondering or feeling hopeless - However many Christians do feel they have committed it because they believe strongly enough in God!.

Thank you folks for your words of Encouragement! This will be a long pathway before I get this particular sin out of my system. I have spoken to my Doctor so will be speaking to a Psychatrist (A Non Christian One) and getting them to set my mind straight!.

People like @Drich do a good job helping dont get me wrong but like Pineapple said - there are *Some* people who need Iron Clad proof and when they pray to their God for this proof he convieniently does not reply - Thats cruel and evil.

That's literally like saying 'If you say anything bad about person x you will be killed' and then saying something 'vague' and leaving the end person worried!

What do you think?

[pineapplebunnybounce]

@themonkeyman, it takes a long time for a lot of people. But there's this moment where you realize you're better than god. That you'd never have done this to others. That you've been insulted many times in your life and you've probably never even thought of violently attacking someone for it, let alone damn them to eternal suffering. Then, the question you have to deal with is: how would such an evil god even understand the good in you enough to put it in you? You don't expect a psycho killer to understand your love for your pet when he killed his for practice. The idea of an evil god, I mean how low will this god sink to? Supposing he exist, can the bible even be trusted? Or maybe it's just an elaborate trick for his own enjoyment. On and on and on but these are all questions you have to make peace with, or you must be content to ignore it for the rest of your life.

Oh btw, yes, I find your experience very similar to mine. And as you can see, you can turn out ok in the end. I'm pretty happy with my life now, and I haven't worried about hell since the day I stopped believing.

[Drich]

Hi Pineapple

You have got it bang on! Your words are exactly how I am thinking, Its not that @Drich is right or wrong its the fact that there are so many different view points and opinions on the topic.

This then leads into the problem how the hell can there be 20 different views if the bible itself is said to be true.

Which is why maybe you should look things up yourself. Don't take anyone's word, do the research and come to your own conclusions.

Surely there would be agreement all these people who say they have the Holy Spirit I am sure it would not give people different view points?... Would he?

What other view points are there?
This is what the first three links look like after a google check:
http://christianity.about.com/od/faqhelp...ains_2.htm

http://carm.org/what-blasphemy-holy-spir...-commit-it

http://www.gotquestions.org/blasphemy-Holy-Spirit.html

If you want to save yourself about 15 mins of read then take it to heart they all say the same thing.
I even spot checked 6 others ones and they all say the same thing, which is What I told you in my orginal statement.

I don't know if I did commit it or not, As you have seen what I have said - It can be seen that I might have but the underlying meaning to the wording used would imply that I didnt.

You would not have commited it unless you died a sinner. However I believe from what you have said thus far you are on that road.

Ultimately it was this that started me on my path to De-conversion, How can I have a healthy life feeling hopeless. I prayed to God every day to show me one way or the other and I got no response. Zilch!

Wow... Maybe it was God who put this unease on your heart, and all you have to do to relieve this dread, is to take the time to go through it with someone who has answered this question for himself. Or again, the other option is to take an hour with a concordance/lexicon and your bible, and frame out the answer for yourself.

After you do this for 6 months you begin to loose faith, My girlfriend (Agnostic) said one phrase that brought it all home.

'Why would a loving God allow pedophiles / murderers / rapists into heaven but not let a Christian in for using a bad choice of words'

What words? (Bad word/curse word) then the name of the Holy Spirit?!?! Seriously? where did this happen in Mark's account or Matthews account? The Pharisees did not even mention the name of the Holy Spirit when they blasphemed Him.

Matthews account Tells us that Christ "Knew their Hearts" and then rebuked what they did as blaspheme of the Holy Spirit. So how does what your girlfriend said, equate to the blaspheme Jesus Spoke of? Again, your GF says that a 'Christian' can commit this sin with what he/she says, yet the only people ever being on record of having commited this sin, probably did not even know the phrase 'Holy Spirit' let alone curse Him as you two think. Again it is a matter of the Heart like Christ points out.

At that point that was a kick in my belief!

To me it just look like you were looking for any reason to leave. Because if you thought about it for 2 mins (critically) the Pharisees did not mention the Holy Spirit in their 'blaspheme.'

What fucking God would do such a thing to Christians!,

did He?

The only people who know about this sin are Christians as most other people have never heard about it, So the only people who are really at risk are Christians because they Believe in Jesus!

Take for example - My sister has not heard about this sin so wont ever be at the risk of committing it or wondering or feeling hopeless - However many Christians do feel they have committed it because they believe strongly enough in God!.

Actually the oppsite is true. Because they do not know God, they are guilty of this sin.

People like @Drich do a good job helping dont get me wrong but like Pineapple said - there are *Some* people who need Iron Clad proof and when they pray to their God for this proof he convieniently does not reply - Thats cruel and evil.

That's literally like saying 'If you say anything bad about person x you will be killed' and then saying something 'vague' and leaving the end person worried!

What do you think?

I think you've missed the point otherwise you would see what 'people like that (Those who need Iron clad proof) do when they get it.

These two examples found in Mat and Mark are what happens when hard hearted people come across the 'Iron clad proof' that they are looking for, and yet still do not WANT to believe. They attributed this 'proof' as being works of the Devil. (Or in modern cases a branch of science)

Again, Now because "Christ knew their Hearts" He could say they "blasphemed the Holy Spirit." before the time of their final Judgment. For they Had witnessed the Power of God first hand and had not other recourse but to believe, and yet they said it was the work of the Devil because in their heart they did not want to believe.

This process, this choice (To acknoweledge God in your life) is the point of this life. Christ again was in a position, and had the Authority to judge their hearts right then and there, before their final judgement so He did. (maybe for no other reason than to let the rest of us know what this blaspheme actually is.) This refusal of God is said blaspheme. Read some of what has been written in this thread.. Again these single occourances against God/The Holy Spirit is not blaspheme in of itself, but a life time of this without repentance/attonement is the unforgivable sin.