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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 2:43 pm
John, please try to make the connection, it isn't that hard.
It is fallacious to argue popularity and or tradition. The ancient Egyptians for 3,000 years pointed to the sun and prayed to it. You know that the sun is not a god, and don't have to think about that.
I am saying to you to take that logic, you use to rightfully dismiss the claim of the sun being a god, and look in the mirror. For the same reason you reject Vishnu or Allah. We simply go one deity claim further and reject all of them.
We know you believe in a God, WHAT we question is your logic and HOW you come to that conclusion. You make the exact same mistake all fans of gods make. You assume first then work backwards to make excuses to cling to that naked assertion.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 2:45 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 12:44 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: (October 9, 2013 at 12:31 pm)Chas Wrote: You haven't refuted atheism; you can't refute a non-belief except by proving your claim.
You're not claiming that God didn't create the universe then? If you genuinely don't know and have no bias you can't be refuted only schooled in the ways of God, and then you'll come to a life changing understanding. Unless you resist but you can only do this by making the counter claim which is what you're really up to. You put up all these smoke screens and play around with words.
You have made a claim but have provided no evidence.
I have made no claim about the origin of the universe.
I have made no claim other than stating the lack of evidence.
You really don't understand the concept of 'burden of proof', do you?
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 2:46 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 2:33 pm)John V Wrote: (October 9, 2013 at 2:04 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: I did. However it does not matter since you have no evidence to present, Sure I do - the Bible. You might not accept it personally, but it fits your definition.
I read it once, and what a boring load of vapid shit, devoid of any merit it was.
It was a chore to get through it.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 2:49 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 2:33 pm)John V Wrote: (October 9, 2013 at 2:04 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: I did. However it does not matter since you have no evidence to present, Sure I do - the Bible. You might not accept it personally, but it fits your definition.
Quote:an since different religions vary wildly then how could you claim to have a standard of evidence defined by the community?
Religions vary widely, but evidence for them doesn't. For most it's documentary testimonial evidence.
No, the Bible does not meet any reasonable standard of evidence.
It is full of historical inaccuracies, incorrect claims about the physical world, internal contradictions, morality fit for hell, and sections of pure craziness.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 2:56 pm
If you go in trying to read the Bible as a straightforward book of history and you apply the mindset of scientific naturalism then yes it's going to seem like gibberish.
![[Image: The+Atheist+wheel+of+logic_5049e6_3404622.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=static.fjcdn.com%2Fpictures%2FThe%2BAtheist%2Bwheel%2Bof%2Blogic_5049e6_3404622.jpg)
If you read it with an open mind to God you'll get more out of it. Some if it is a little dated admittedly but there's plenty of divine illumination to be had in those pages.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 2:58 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: If you go in trying to read the Bible as a straightforward book of history
Which is, after all, what it's proponents for thousands of years claimed it was.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 2:59 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 10:29 am)Lemonvariable72 Wrote: (October 9, 2013 at 8:39 am)BadWriterSparty Wrote: Well, Dawkins is an anti-theist, so...
Dawkins considers himself a 6/7 on his own scale.
His scale, IIRC, doesn't address anti-theism - only atheism and agnosticism.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 3:01 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 2:56 pm)Sword of Christ Wrote: If you read it with an open mind to God you'll get more out of it. Some if it is a little dated admittedly but there's plenty of divine illumination to be had in those pages.
Been there, done that. I was a Christian, years ago.
Reading the damn bible was a large part of disabusing me of any notion that I wanted to continue being one.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 3:05 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 2:49 pm)Chas Wrote: (October 9, 2013 at 2:33 pm)John V Wrote: Sure I do - the Bible. You might not accept it personally, but it fits your definition.
Religions vary widely, but evidence for them doesn't. For most it's documentary testimonial evidence.
No, the Bible does not meet any reasonable standard of evidence.
It is full of historical inaccuracies, incorrect claims about the physical world, internal contradictions, morality fit for hell, and sections of pure craziness.
See john. Inorder, for the bible to even meet your definition, the majority of the world would have to be Christian, which is simply not the case. Add to that chas's objection which is quite correct.
also to farther discredit your evidence, the bible is the claim, that must be verified, not the presented the evidence per se. It is filled with many historical accuracies, and unforfilled prohecies.
and if you continue using the bible as evidence that still puts you on the same level as say hinduism or islam.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
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RE: The most important reason anyone is a atheist
October 9, 2013 at 3:07 pm
(October 9, 2013 at 2:58 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Which is, after all, what it's proponents for thousands of years claimed it was.
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" 2 Timothy 3:16
Does that say all scripture is literal historical fact? 
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.
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