Atheist vs Atheist

[pineapplebunnybounce]

If I'm not mistaken lots of things need to come to pass before the bible is fulfilled. For example jesus was supposed to return before the disciples died. If by your standard of evidence, one fail prophecy doesn't disprove the bible, then one correct prophecy doesn't prove it either. You can't have it both ways.

Pineapple - You are correct in what you say however my response to this would be the fact that Science even now cannot disprove God and generally within science when we cannot prove or disprove something we leave it with a big question. Therefore based upon this God's existance cannot be proven either way so how can we say it is wrong.

How do we know that a prophecy has failed? Do we look behind in history and say it failed. Thats the same as science saying the speed of light is 200,000,000 + m/s then revising it later it is not a concrete definitave method to say that just because the timing is incorrect does not render the foregone conclusion incorrect.

Actually it does if the prophecy specifies a time limit. If a prophecy doesn't specify a time limit then it's a cop out. What makes prophecies such fascinations are the extreme improbabilities that they would come true, which has inspired many to invoke the supernatural. However if I were to say that a war will break out, but give no time limit, the probability of something like that happening grows as time passes and eventually when it does happen it's no longer improbable, I've simply weathered out the low probabilities by being extremely vague in my prophecy, and now some gullible would have fallen for it.

Science cannot disprove many things. I'm doing research on some common chemical's toxicity recently for a class. It is rumoured to be bad for you and my job is to determine if it is. And I've come to realize how stupid the entire process is when you are moved from the position of proving something to the position of disproving something. It requires much larger sample sizes to show that no toxicity occurs, and even if I were to succeed, anyone else can just come along and say if I used a larger sample size I would have seen something. At some point you have to call it a day. I can easily claim many things right now and you wouldn't be able to prove me wrong. It's a technicality that the religious exploit shamelessly to perpetuate their dogma. Anyone even slightly trained in science would not be impressed by the fact that science cannot disprove god, science cannot disprove unicorns but you don't see companies selling imaginary unicorns to kids.

[themonkeyman]

procaracas - I dont generally believe but these people who say there is a heaven and hell are the people I have trusted and knew my entire life so at times it really does feel that I am going out on a limb when they are so persuaded otherwise.

And yet they were unable to persuade you. Why? Surely there must be some reason, or number of reasons, why you're conflicted? In spite of apparently being surrounded by religious believers and their reinforcement for years, you've come to doubt their views so strongly that you're asking for help in fighting off their arguments.

Find the reason for that, and you'll probably realize just how weak their whole belief system really is.

In any case, people have been predicting the end of the world for a very long time. Also, keep in mind that bad news always draws the most attention and in a world where there is more media coverage and accessibility than ever, it's easy to be overwhelmed by bad news and think that things are worse than ever. And that theme has been going on for as long as there have been people making end-of-world predictions.

See I know what you are saying is correct but although I know the bible cannot hold its own weight from what I have learned here. I still have not read the bible from cover to cover so to my friend he is able to counter every argument I have.

This then slightly pushes me back into belief as I dont have enough information to blow some of his claims out of the water. He is subtle enough in these claims to make it seam that they are real without hitting the bible over my head.

I live in Northern Ireland where there is no Separation of Church and state meaning that there are many people who are religious so poking at there being no God is not the 'Done' thing because more people here believe than are willing to admit.

Ultimately what it means is that everything that is Done in this country is done by Christians / For Christians under the direction of a Christian God.

See my precdicament. This site is one of the few places where I can vent and actually speak to real people. I am an Introvert and dont have many friends so when your only friends are Christians its hard to hang out when they are constantly trying to convert me.

I did believe in God but not necessarily God of the Bible and only joined Church because I was at a new university and wanted to meet new people. Plus I wanted to find a Girlfriend which is why most people join churches.

[ThomM]

Hi Folks,

I came on this forum a few months ago and I have learned allot from both the Christians and atheists. A Good friend of mine is a Christian and his father is a Pastor. I haven't hung out with him since I told him I became an Atheist. Because when I did he fought me down and won the argument for God.

So In-order for me to strengthen my Belief -> UnBelief I am going to propose a few topics that I would ideally like to be challenged upon. I know deep down that the arguments that people here make will be correct. But I would like to see the tought pattern and process so I can learn from it.

My First Statement:

With all the wars / famines / earthquakes and tidal waves going on alongside all the Doom's day prophecy that seam to have stepped up a gear. What is to say that we are not indeed living in the end times according to several religions. The argument you can make is that this happened through out history however the undeniable truth is that for the Christian Bible account to be rendered true it must happen in several places and most importantly Israel and Palestine. Many of these events have occurred so does this prove God Correct?

Your Rebuttal:

Your statement should be

In over 2000 years - with almost complete control of the western world at times - with almost unlimited resources available - and using the best available methods and people - religion has yet to come up with ONE TESTABLE and VERIFIABLE piece of proof of the existence of a god.

Over that time - science has proven numerous things in the bible are NOT True - or did not happen - and every day more is proven false.

Prayer has been determined scientifically to have NO statistically significant effect over pure chance - no matter what is prayed to - which god or which Idol. Churches often point to individuals who claim divine intervention - but fail to include all those who prayed and still were not cured or died.

Religions also point to NEAR DEATH episodes - but there are thousands of such episodes from people of all different religions who see exactly what THEY are taught they will see. Xtians see the christ - Hindi see Vishnu - Muslims see Allah - and atheists see peace and tranquility. WHY don't they ALL see the christ is the christ were real? ANd there are more such reported sights among Hindi than all other religions too. (IT is considered a good omen)

ANd remember - the majority of humans do not accept christianity as well.

And - nearly ALL ancient based religions hold WOMEN as property of men - that they should be subservient to men, silent - and have children (1 Timothy 2)

WHere is YOUR proof a god exists?

[freedomfromforum]

When I gamble (which is almost never) I enjoy playing Roulette. Once in a great while my number comes up and I feel like a winner. Sometimes I bet on multiple numbers. When I bet on multiple numbers I 'win' more frequently. When I was single I dated (a lot). The more women i approached, the more dates I got. The more dates I went on, the more I got, well, you get the point. The odds of probability are in favor of a safe bet.

[Tonus]

See my precdicament. This site is one of the few places where I can vent and actually speak to real people. I am an Introvert and dont have many friends so when your only friends are Christians its hard to hang out when they are constantly trying to convert me.

I understand what you are facing, to some small degree (a friend of mine is in a similar situation, though he doesn't seem to realize it just yet). Keep in mind that what is causing you the most discomfort is not the ideas about god or religion, but the social pressure being used to force you to accept beliefs you don't find convincing. No doubt those who are doing so feel no compunction whatsoever about it, because they're serving some greater purpose in their minds.

Just be thankful you live in the current day and age. There was a time when your "friends" would be putting pressure on you by torturing and ultimately killing you in order to make sure that god was happy.