The Fly

[account_inactive]

Fucking hell. Gravedig, much?

[Agnostic Scholar]

The bit in the Qaran which talks about the 72 virgins can also be translated as 72 white raisins. Correct?

With this in mind My first question would be "what are the other possible translations?

Ever heard of a guy called Nostradamus?

The majority of what he wrote was also bollox but every now and again with a little bit of tweaking (or another translation) can be made to sound like it was predicted.

So it can also be translated as?

A

---

........Ms Joanne Clarke, who presented the group’s findings at the Australian Society for Microbiology Conference in Melbourne . The project is part of her PhD thesis. The scientists tested four different species of fly: a house fly, a sheep blowfly, a vinegar fruit fly and the control, a Queensland fruit fly which lays its eggs in fresh fruit. These larvae do not need as much antibacterial compound because they do not come into contact with as much bacteria. Flies go through the life stages of larvae and pupae before becoming adults. In the pupae stage, the fly is encased in a protective casing and does not feed. "We predicted they would not produce many antibiotics," said Ms Clarke. They did not. However the larvae all showed antibacterial properties (except that of the Queensland fruit fly control). As did all the adult fly species, including the Queensland fruit fly (which at this point requires antibacterial protection because it has contact with other flies and is mobile). Such properties were present on the fly surface in all four species, although antibacterial properties occur in the gut as well. "You find activity in both places," said Ms Clarke. "The reason we concentrated on the surface is because it is a simpler extraction.”The antibiotic material is extracted by drowning the flies in ethanol, then running the mixture through a filter to obtain the crude extract . When this was placed in a solution with various bacteria including E.coli, Golden Staph, Candida (a yeast) and a common hospital pathogen, antibiotic action was observed every time. "We are now trying to identify the specific antibacterial compounds," said Ms Clarke. Ultimately these will be chemically synthesised.

You must be very unhappy with this?  a western WOMAN working in a LABORATORY has proven something from the Qaran........................will you now allow muslim women to work in laboratories?

https://atheistforums.org/thread-2153-page-1.html

Your fucking words hypocrite

A

I have read the Bible as ell as Quraan several times, and it is high time to dispel this groundless claim that the Quraan claims 72 Virgins etc...One could expect that contributors to this post should no their stuff and provide reference. Another point Female Muslim scientists, researchers and doctors have been practising in many but not all muslim states for many decades, including in many Western countries and Universities , as Muslims. So let us not spin facts into lies and accuse others of being hypocrites. Just remove the prejudice blinding you and research your material scientifcally

---

So it turns out that the fly has a natural resistance to many diseases.  Why is this surprising?

It certainly doesn't contain poison under one wing and the antidote to that poison under the other.  Nor can antibiotics combat any of the possible viral infections that the fly may transmit.

You seem to be arguing that this recent discovery was mentioned in the Qu'ran 1400 years before science discovered it but in reality there is no link at all except a very vague coincidence in the mentioning of a fly.

What the Qu'ran is saying is that the fly contains a cure for the very infections that it carries and by mixing the two together in your drink they will cancel each other out.  This is a) absolute nonsense and b) not at all what has recently been discovered.

Wishful thinking on your part I'm afraid.

Next?

Not entirely nonsense, since Penicillin as discovered in Fungus Colonies, but I agree it is not proof to such as claims

[rexbeccarox]

Dude. This thread is from seven years ago.

[TheRealJoeFish]

Took you 79 months to come up with all that?

Kind of awesome about all those female muslim scientists and doctors and stuff. Now if they were just allowed to drive to work amirite?!

[Agnostic Scholar]

I liked your comments , proving the hopelessness .
the is my first proof about God , please be more confident about your beliefs

so ignore the question this time : who did tell Mohammad about the fly ?
because I will ask the same question : again and again and again , at the end you have two paths :
1- believe that God existent .
2- unable to answer the question .
see you in next proof .

He inferred it from his observations of reality. If his sample size was large enough and he followed the scientific method he could have claimed this bit of knowledge as his discovery.

There I answered your question and I still reject Allah. Mohammad wrote down a guess and called it Allah inspired.

Rhizo

I appreciate your comment Rhizo, it shows sound reasoning, but only if the Fly was the only so called "guess by Mohamed". That  isn't the case at all!! The Quraan cites a more compelling example, that of the Mosquito. It challenges mankind, that the Mosquito a very weak insect yet so effective it cannot be eradicated despite the killer diseases it transmits since time eternal (Malaria, Yellow Fever & now Zika) despite hundreds of millions of dollars thrown at it by governments  & WHO Scientists. Quraan also dedicates a Chapter's title to Bees. It clearly mentions that there are different types of honey not based on the bee but rather on the flower they feed upon. Importantly it emphasizes that Honey is a cure to some illnesses which has been proven recently such as the Manuka honey from New Zealand that has well established medical applications eg, it expedites healing of dangerous wounds.

---

So the fly has some antibiotic properties, great. That still leaves the sad fact that flies do carry around bacteria and viruses that are not treated by that antibiotic. Why does your prophet advocate dunking the entire fly in your drink therefore making sure that all the possible diseases the fly might carry gets absorbed in your drink?

That is ludicrous. Never ever dunk flies in your drink and drink it afterward, its a stupid idea. If your god says that you should do that your god is wrong.

Leo, you are quite right. But our Muslim contributor doesn't know that this story on behalf of Mohamed, has only a single source, not more. This is like saying that drug A cures disease B, based on a single center single author study. Which is not at all scientifically sound. 
It is well recognized among Muslim scholars & Orientalists that ONLY sayings by Mohamed that have several sources (References), should be regarded as infallible. This doesn't apply here

[Alex K]

Jebus, give it a rest, Mr. Scholar. Some of the people you're responding to haven't been here since the last decade

[Minimalist]

[WinterHold]

Not the "universe creation" thing !

It is already proved:

Who initialized the constructor of the universe? who seeded it with the parameters needed?

In other words: 

object Universe our_uni = new Universe(double pi, double this, double that,....,etc)

{

} //End of function 

Now that is one fine representation. Even Stephen Hawking changed his mind about it twice:

Hawking says the first blow to Newton's belief that the universe could not have arisen from chaos was the observation in 1992 of a planet orbiting a star other than our Sun. "That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions – the single sun, the lucky combination of Earth-sun distance and solar mass – far less remarkable, and far less compelling as evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010...ng-creator

No..it's not a game of luck. Nothing is a game of luck. The writer of code; the seeder of the parameters knows it; everything must be specified and initialized before it gets used; or else: the code hangs; the environment falls. 

Just like a drip of sand getting inside your eyes while you're driving a sound-speed jet between a maze of skyscrapers.

Who seeded those parameters?
Or if I may say: who defined them in the first place?

That is what Newton saw, and Hawkings clearly saw at first but rejected later on.

[ignoramus]

Shit, there's a fly in my coffee! Please advise on how to proceed!

[Sheed1980]

the  Fly is dirty insect and a causative for many diseases but it is not dirty as some humans minds ,

Prophet Mohammed says "If a fly falls into one of your containers [of food or drink], immerse it completely (falyaghmis-hu kullahu) before removing it, for under one of its wings there is venom and under another there is its antidote. "

a research calls for a new antibody from the fly antidote here is research titled "The new buzz on antibiotics" . read this  study:The surface of flies is the last place you would expect to find antibiotics, yet that is exactly where a team of Australian researchers is concentrating their efforts Working on the theory that flies must have remarkable antimicrobial defenses to survive rotting dung, meat and fruit, the team at the Department of Biological Sciences, Macquarie University, set out to identify those antibacterial properties manifesting at different stages of a fly’s development. "Our research is a small part of a global research effort for new antibiotics, but we are looking where we believe no-one has looked before,” said Ms Joanne Clarke, who presented the group’s findings at the Australian Society for Microbiology Conference in Melbourne . The project is part of her PhD thesis. The scientists tested four different species of fly: a house fly, a sheep blowfly, a vinegar fruit fly and the control, a Queensland fruit fly which lays its eggs in fresh fruit. These larvae do not need as much antibacterial compound because they do not come into contact with as much bacteria. Flies go through the life stages of larvae and pupae before becoming adults. In the pupae stage, the fly is encased in a protective casing and does not feed. "We predicted they would not produce many antibiotics," said Ms Clarke. They did not. However the larvae all showed antibacterial properties (except that of the Queensland fruit fly control). As did all the adult fly species, including the Queensland fruit fly (which at this point requires antibacterial protection because it has contact with other flies and is mobile). Such properties were present on the fly surface in all four species, although antibacterial properties occur in the gut as well. "You find activity in both places," said Ms Clarke. "The reason we concentrated on the surface is because it is a simpler extraction.”The antibiotic material is extracted by drowning the flies in ethanol, then running the mixture through a filter to obtain the crude extract . When this was placed in a solution with various bacteria including E.coli, Golden Staph, Candida (a yeast) and a common hospital pathogen, antibiotic action was observed every time. "We are now trying to identify the specific antibacterial compounds," said Ms Clarke. Ultimately these will be chemically synthesised.

Because the compounds are not from bacteria, any genes conferring resistance to them may not be as easily transferred into pathogens. It is hoped this new form of antibiotics will have a longer effective therapeutic life.

 
The fly carries a disease and the cure on both its wings: Mentioned in Islam and confirmed by Science (Bacteriophages)

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2...689400.htm

who told prophet Mohammad before 1400 years about the fly .

as long as our miracle about the fly … an extra challenge :  (( O men! Here is a parable set forth! Listen to it! Those on whom, besides Allah, ye call, cannot create (even) a fly, if they all met together for the purpose! And if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they would have no power to realise it from the fly. Feeble are those who petition and those whom they petition! [74] No just estimate have they made of Allah: for Allah is He Who is strong and able to carry out His Will. ))

at the verse another  modern scientific fact , are you able to find it ?

 In the 7th century mankind didn't have this knowledge and technology that these scientists discovered this with recently. So just as Last Ray says here "Who gave Prophet Muhammad pbuh this knowledge?" It came from none other than Allah God Almighty Himself. In the Qur'an 53:2-4 Allah says "(2)Your companion (Muhammad)is not astray nor being misled. (3)Nor does he say aught of his own accord. (4)It is no less than inspiration sent down to him."

All praise be to Allah, The Creator of the heavens and the Earth. He is The One Who created the fly with its ailments and cures, which men had no knowledge of except by His word to mankind through His messenger Muhammad pbuh over 1400 years ago. Allah gives us many scientific, mathematical, astronomical, and linguistic miracles and signs in the Holy Qur'an, which was first revealed in 610, to show this knowledge could come from none other than Him because no human being knew of these things at that time. And now He has blessed us as mankind to have the technology which verifies each of these miracles to this day. Allah continues to give us signs to show He is The Only Creator and as long as He allows us to live we have another chance to submit to Him as our only Lord and humble ourselves as His servants. So take advantage and seek His guidance before it's too late my friends.