Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: December 26, 2024, 5:07 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The Raglan Scale
#1
The Raglan Scale
In 1936 a book was published, written by Fitzroy Somerset, the 4th Baron of Raglan. It was called, "The Hero, A Study in Tradition, Myth and Drama." It theorized that hero figures of mythology got their stories from drama, not historical fact. It listed some features in ancient mythology that were common among mythical heroes:

The hero's mother is a royal virgin;
His father is a king, and
Often a near relative of his mother, but
The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
He is also reputed to be the son of a god.
At birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or his maternal grandfather, to kill him, but
He is spirited away, and
Reared by foster parents in a far country.
We are told nothing of his childhood, but
On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
After a victory over the king, and/or a giant, dragon, or wild beast,
He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor, and
Becomes king.
For a time he reigns uneventfully, and
Prescribes laws, but
Later loses favor with the gods and/or his subjects, and
Is driven from the throne and city, after which
He meets a mysterious death,
Often at the top of a hill.
His children, if any, do not succeed him.
His body is not buried, but nevertheless
He has one or more holy sepulchers.

When this list is applied to heroes, the more points that match up (and getting a lot can not be coincidental) the more likely the hero is a myth. Getting a score of 7 or higher verifies that the hero is mythical, and can not be historical. Lord Raglan actually doesn't apply the list to Jesus (out of fear of the repercussions) but it can very easily be applied to him.

Jesus scores a 15. And that's being conservative.

That is higher than what Heracles and Zeus score.

Like I said, it can't be a coincidence. Jesus is a myth.

http://www.amazon.com/Hero-Study-Traditi...+tradition
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
- Buddha
"Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it."
- Dennis McKinsey
Reply
#2
RE: The Raglan Scale
I disagree that 'a lot' can not be coincidence and that a high score verifies anything. It's interesting, no doubt, but that's all.
Reply
#3
RE: The Raglan Scale
Hey Cap,

I don't think you're seeing the point. Can fluke coincidences occur? Absolutely, I don't deny that. But we KNOW Heracles and Zeus are myths, yet they score lower (about a 14) than Jesus on this scale! Doesn't that make a pretty damn strong case against Jesus? Some theorists put Jesus at an 18 or 19. That makes him even more improbable.

I mean what are the odds that the son of god would have so much in common with other mythological stories? You'd have a better chance of being elected king of the Earth than nailing 18 of these traits UNLESS PEOPLE WERE MAKING YOU UP.

Coincidence is a fact of life, but so is massive improbability.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
- Buddha
"Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it."
- Dennis McKinsey
Reply
#4
RE: The Raglan Scale
I don't really see much to grouse about what you say...I just find hard evidence, or lack thereof, more definitive. This comparison is less meat, and more potatoe.
Reply
#5
RE: The Raglan Scale
At best, a higher score on this scale gives you a reason to infer the figure in question is mythical. I don't see anything that coukd guarantee it.
Reply
#6
RE: The Raglan Scale
Wasn't the first Lord Raglan the guy who fucked up the Crimean War?
Reply
#7
RE: The Raglan Scale
Oh crap, Tsar Nicholas II (14) was a myth! It can't be a coincidence.

BTW, you have to stretch quite a few to get Jesus to 15.
Reply
#8
RE: The Raglan Scale
Okay, John, good point. All I have to counter with is that Tsar Nicholas doesn't match any of the supernatural criteria, yet Jesus meets all of them. Maybe this scale is far from definitive, but it still makes a good, if not as strong as I hoped, argument.
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.”
- Buddha
"Anyone wanting to believe Jesus lived and walked as a real live human being must do so despite the evidence, not because of it."
- Dennis McKinsey
Reply
#9
RE: The Raglan Scale
(October 26, 2013 at 7:59 pm)Beta Ray Bill Wrote: Okay, John, good point. All I have to counter with is that Tsar Nicholas doesn't match any of the supernatural criteria, yet Jesus meets all of them. Maybe this scale is far from definitive, but it still makes a good, if not as strong as I hoped, argument.
With that counter, all you're left with is a gussied-up a priori rejection of the supernatural - not much of an argument at all.
Reply





Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)