H1N1

[Pippy]

Hey all,

I hate to be the one who starts it, but I feel the need to discuss the current "level 6 Pandemic" of "Swine-Flu" (so called), or an H1N1 variant.

I know this is a very international forum, and most of you live on the other side of the ocean from me, and that allows us a wide view of this crisis. What is going on in your locales?

I can update from Canada, and I keep an eye on America. Here in the Great White North things are under control (in more ways than one), but not calm. The Government started giving out "vaccines" (they are not vaccinations, but inoculations, a seemingly unimportant or unknown point if you ask the WHO and Health Canada) at the beginning of last week. They have either administered 2.2 million doses, or intend to administer (in a population of 30 million). The newspapers are fear-mongering in a terrible way with headlines of dead children and asking all the wrong questions. The Globe did put a front page out about the business/health communities profiting from this situation, which is closer to the right questions. But no real coverage. I spent all last night at work getting updated about Ukraine, a terrible situation there, and it got 47 words in an article in the middle of the local paper...

So far no one in Ukraine can tell us the relationship of "vaccinated" people and the literal explosion of serious cases of what they are still calling "a flu-like illness". If none of them are infected, some of them or all of them, we do not know. Although the Ukraine does have a government flu body, it is staffed by one person. They have 80 million people.

I am just curious what programs are going on wherever you guys are. We have the GSK shot here, which does still have unanswered safety questions, but not as bad as the Baxter one. I have seen some horrible allegations abot the Baxter shot, and we do know that they have had at least 2 catastrophic failures in the last two years. It is shown that they knowingly sent medicine that had been recalled in North America to Europe after it was found to have Human Immunodeficiency Virus contamination (!). Also last year they "accidentally" put H5N1 bird flu in some (72 kilos) flu samples for use in vaccinations. I have doubts that a Bio security Level 3 lab can make mistakes. So Baxters shot is the most dangerous right now I think, but none have been shown to be safe or efficient, the normally paltry safety mechanisms were bypassed since this is a declared "emergency".

I have to go to work and get the flu, have Hypercytokenmia and die, but I will get back about this. I hope not to start a discussion whether I am a crazy conspiracy theorist, just to share what we see around us about this situation.

Be safe friends,
-Pip

[Violet]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A...btype_H1N1 Here's our strain. Here's what wiki says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic

Newspapers are overdramatizing it... but it is a potential threat.

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The initial outbreak received a week of near-constant media attention. Epidemiologists cautioned that the number of cases reported in the early days of an outbreak can be very inaccurate and deceptive due to several causes, among them selection bias, media bias, and incorrect reporting by governments. Inaccuracies could also be caused by authorities in different countries looking at differing population groups. Furthermore, countries with poor health care systems and older laboratory facilities may take longer to identify or report cases.[137] Dr. Joseph S. Bresee (the CDC flu division's epidemiology chief) and Dr. Michael T. Osterholm (director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research) have pointed out that millions of people have had swine flu, usually in a mild form, so the numbers of laboratory-confirmed cases were actually meaningless, and in July 2009 the WHO stopped keeping count of individual cases and focused more on major outbreaks.[138]

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We shall see.

Here's all the people it has been noted by wikipedia to have killed so far: 6,255. I'm not worried... to be honest.

Guess how many die from the seasonal flu each year? 250,000–500,000 per year. How many months has H1N1_2009 affected humans again? 7 months. If in 7 months, it has only killed 6,255 people... whereas the seasonal has killed at least ~250,000 in the last 12 months: which do you think should be given more attention?

/sigh at the media... anything to cause a ruckus. I'll be getting the vaccine when it comes around again... but I really can't be to worried about it. This is just another 'avian' flu blow-over (granted, that was a much more dangerous virus... more so for birds than for us ). Because you know... nobody wants to read about good news.

for your thoughts?

Edit: interesting, perhaps it has been going on even longer

The outbreak was first observed in Mexico, with evidence that there had been an ongoing epidemic for months before it was officially recognized as such.[5] The Mexican government soon closed most of Mexico City's public and private offices and facilities to contain the spread of the virus. As the virus quickly spread globally, clinics were overwhelmed by testing and treating patients, and the WHO and the CDC eventually stopped counting all cases and focused instead on tracking major outbreaks. On June 11, 2009, the WHO declared the outbreak to be a pandemic

Yes, lots of people catch this flu... but as I noted above: few of us die. Of course, i am only using Wiki... if anyone else has any other information: go to it

[theblindferrengi]

All of the mass hysteria has gotten out of control. Now people are intentionally exposing themselves in order to get it before it will suposedly mutate to be worse. To appear effective, the egyptian government slaughtered and incenerated a few thousand pigs, even though that did absoultly nothing whatsoever concerning the 2009_H1N1 enfluenza A virus.

On a barely related note, I just found out that the United States has secret government egg farms, that "in the interest of national security" are posted with armed guards. The Bush Jr. administration put them in place when the 2004_H5N1 enfluenza A virus scare happened, so that a vaccine could be mass produced on short notice.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Here the vaccine is available free to everyone. I had my shot a couple of weeks ago,on the first day it was available. I had my annual flu shot a month or so before that.

Some people argue (stupidly imo) that Swine flu is no worse than other,common strains. As at August 30,there had been 150 deaths in Australia due to swine flu. The 'ordinary flu' causes about 2500 deaths in Australia each year.

I'm an older man in poor health; any kind of flu is life threatening for me. When adults choose not to be vaccinated,catch whatever disease it may be,and die, we are seeing evolution in action,as nature weeds out the stupid.

[Violet]

And that wiki article noted deaths in Australia and Pacific: 211 deaths (As of the last 7 days). This is included in the total (6,255 worldwide confirmed as of the last week or so). So no, I do not believe this to be any deadlier than the normal strain... esp. considering that it has been around for 7 months, and only killed ~6,000 people. The normal seasonal flu is far worse... it has killed at least ~250,000 people in the last 12 months. For the swine flu to be considered as dangerous within the next 5 months... it would have to increase the mortality rates about 4000%.

In australia alone... it would have to increase mortality rates a good 1500% or so within a year of it having come out for it to be even equally comparable to the normal flu. Flus are bad any way you look at it... and nobody wants to be sick with it. But if you do get sick with it: you probably won't die of it.

I'm an older man in poor health; any kind of flu is life threatening for me. When adults choose not to be vaccinated,catch whatever disease it may be,and die, we are seeing evolution in action,as nature weeds out the stupid.

Or we see nature killing those with asthma, diabetes, etc. It can also kill perfectly healthy and intelligent people (like say me) who decided to let those who were more likely to need it get vaccinated first

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

It can also kill perfectly healthy and intelligent people (like say me) who decided to let those who were more likely to need it get vaccinated first Smile

I was referring to the terminally stupid who are willing to risk their lives for no good reason. Seems to me you've taken a [miminal] calculated risk based on a sense of compassion and social responsibility,which is laudable.


I probably won't die if I get the flu.But my chances are significantly higher than yours. I'd rather not take the risk.

[Violet]

I was referring to the terminally stupid who are willing to risk their lives for no good reason. Seems to me you've taken a [miminal] calculated risk based on a sense of compassion and social responsibility,which is laudable.


I probably won't die if I get the flu.But my chances are significantly higher than yours. I'd rather not take the risk.

Oh, no disagreement to all of that. You know... my parents actually signed me up to receive the shot... but that is why erasable pen is so nice > _ >

[Tiberius]

Oh, no disagreement to all of that. You know... my parents actually signed me up to receive the shot... but that is why erasable pen is so nice > _ >

You'd be an absolute fool not to get the vaccine. This is a deadly virus, it kills perfectly healthy people who don't have underlying medical conditions, so it's not even a matter of how fit you are or how old you are. A 21 year old guy in the UK was perfectly healthy and he died from the H1N1 strain.

Bird flu was over-hyped by the media, but swine flu really isn't being. A bird flu outbreak relied on the strain mutating so it could infect humans; the H1N1 virus can already infect humans, hence the panic and the mass producing of vaccines.

Yes, this vaccine will make a lot of people rich, but it isn't some massive conspiracy. Someone makes a product, the product gets a lot of demand, the makers get immensely rich. It's just capitalism folks...nothing scary, just how the world works. The vaccines are designed by scientists, supported by many external organizations (such as the WHO). People who don't get them, or refuse to get them, have a death wish.

Oh well, survival of the fittest I guess. Evolution does like to weed out stupid people form the population...

[Violet]

If this strain is so deadly that it kills otherwise healthy people in the prime age of immunization... then out all the people who've caught it (Enough for the WHO to call it a pandemic, and enough for them to stop keeping count): why have so few been noted to have died from it? Either you are over-exaggerating... or the Wiki is hugely under-exaggerating (or perhaps both).

As of the 6th of August... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Influe...hmic-2.png there had been at least 250,000 cases. In the same time frame there had been at least 1,500 deaths. The two appear to have a similar trend, so I am going to make an educated guess as to how many have probably contracted the H1N1_2009 strain by now. About 16,000 cases per every one death... there has been ~6,255 deaths as of this date... So about 100,080,000 people have caught the virus (assuming trends continued since august 6). Out of those... about 6,255 have been reported to have died.

I am not saying anything about the makers of this vaccine getting rich (Why should I care at all?)... and I intend to get the vaccine when I have the next opportunity. I do not see how I have a death wish by leaving a vaccine open to those who would have a higher chance of both contracting.. and dying from this virus? (I was under the impression that there was a limited supply?)

Oh well, survival of the fittest I guess. Evolution does like to weed out stupid people form the population...

It isn't so much survival of the fittest... as it is survival of the lucky. Being fit may tilt the odds in one's favor a bit more (or even a lot more, and sometimes not at all)... but so much more is dependent on where one is, and when. Evolution is a very random process... because it isn't some sort of entity with a goal in mind

[Pippy]

Hey,

I don't know if it is survival of the fittest, the reason younger healthier people are dying of "viral pneumonia" is most likely a phenomenon called a Cytokine Storm. Don't worry, there's a Wiki for it, so it must be real. That would be the opposite of survival of the fittest, those with the best functioning immune systems stand the greatest risk.

We are looking at about .4-1.0% death rate, not bad enough to be personally concerned, but deadly enough to make a dent. I'm sure I know 100 people.

I am not saying anything about the makers of this vaccine getting rich (Why should I care at all?)

It could be nothing, or it could be a terrible conflict of interest, but no one sees those any more.

People who don't get them, or refuse to get them, have a death wish.

Hey Adrian, how you been? I disagree. Like most other things we talk about, I demand my right to decide what medicines I want to take. I am so far adamantly refusing the vaccine because of safety concerns I have about the companies and people involved. Although I am not telling anyone else not to, and my country has not offered me one... Well, I am not telling others not to, but I am happy to share with them what I know. It's amazing how undereducated the average westerner is. Knowing the difference between inoculation and vaccination is important. Just for fun, what are your chances of getting sick after being inoculated? What are the chances that inoculation might have adverse neurological effects? How long after being inoculated are you considered safe from the illness? These are simple and important questions, and you would be surprised (may be) how few people know or wonder.

we are seeing evolution in action

Hey also Padraic, good to see you again. I have to say that I hate that term. One of the fundamentals of evolution is large scale time lapse, so almost nothing we can see in our lives has much of an effect on evolution. But it is a nice piece of allegory.

Do any of you know which shot is being offered? I don't have that information, here in Canada, and I presume America we have GSK's Pandremix ®. Do you guys know which shot you are being offered? Does it matter to you?

I just want people to be safe, but these are dangerous times we live in. Thank you for sharing, I quite appreciate the discussion. I don't mean to disagree too much, but it seems important. (doesn't it always)

Thanks again.
-Pippy