Is god axiomatic?

[Ronga]

It can neither be proven or disproven.
So that basically leads to what i know called "Immanence and Transcendence"

Here's a lecture.
immanence (inside this world) Basically, what we know to be true within this world, what we have knowledge of here, right now, scientific evidence and other needs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanence
transcendence (Outside this world) That is used with things that are unknown to us, like, what happens when we die. In which part is unknown to us still.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcenden...eligion%29


Basically, what is inside this triangle is "Immanence", what is outside is "Transcendence"

Another example:


Let me know what you think?

[MindForgedManacle]

No. I don't take Plantingan reformed epistemology too seriously. It all ends up at Agrippa's Trilemma. Which all ends up getting down to the Reformed Epistemologist - if they're honest and not dicks like Plantinga & Craig - to saying that theism and atheism have to be admitted as being equally rational to to them.

You have to be very careful what you take as an axiom, and what you mean when you take on that axion, i.e Are you accepting it as an ontological truth or methodologically useful? God doesn't seem to me to be either self-evidently extant nor explanatorily useful (because it can "explain" ANYTHING), and there are very good reasons to reject it.

[Brakeman]

Of course it is garbage. You, as others before you, have no evidence for any god, so to try to protect your imaginations you resort to attempting to craft a god from the knots of twisted philosophy.

Reality is much simpler. We have no evidence or direct reason to believe in the existence of gods. The attributes that mankind aways attribute to god, that of invisibility and undetectability are simply that of convenience, of necessity so that they aren't laughed at outright.

[Rayaan]

I don't believe that God is axiomatic (or self-evident) but according to Islamic teachings at least the belief in God is self-ingrained.

This idea is embodied by the Islamic concept of "fitrah."

Fitrah is commonly understood as a type of innate, spiritual quality that inclines every human being towards the belief and submission to the one and only God, or at least to believe in a Divine Oneness ("tawheed"). There are also some slightly different but complementary meanings of this term. For example: Fitrah is the primordial state of belief in God; it refers to an innate knowledge of the oneness of God; it is an ingrained God-consciousness; it is an internal compass that is implanted deep in our souls and it can either flourish or get corrupted. And, as wikipedia puts it:

"According to Islamic theology, human beings are born with an innate inclination of tawhid (Oneness), which is encapsulated in the fitra along with compassion, intelligence, ihsan and all other attributes that embody what it is to be human."

The following is Ibn Kathir's definition of fitrah per the Quranic usage of the term:

Allah says: `so set your face and persevere in the religion which Allah has prescribed for you, the worship of Allah Alone, the religion of Ibrahim, to which Allah has guided you and which He has perfected for you with the utmost perfection. In this manner, you will also adhere to the sound Fitrah with which He created His creation.' Allah created His creation to recognize Him and know His Tawhid, and that there is no God except Him, as we have already seen when discussing the Ayah, (and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord'' They said: "Yes!...'') (7:172).

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=...&Itemid=86


So "fitrah" has a deep-rooted connection with the concept of "tawheed" which is really the core of Islam; these two concepts are linked. "Tawheed" linguistically comes from the word "wahhada" which means "to make one," "to make whole," or "to unify." Tawheed has other requirements for its fulfillment, of course, but that is the most bottom layer of it (linguistically) - i.e. "to make one." That is the meaning of the word that I am using in this post (i.e. the literal meaning), although that is not the technical or Islamic meaning of tawheed. You can learn about that at the link below:

Literally TAWHEED means: "To make something one, or to assert the oneness of something, or to call it one", and it comes from the Arabic verb وحد (wahhada) which means to unite, unify or consolidate. However what we are concerned about here is the technical or Islamic meaning of Tawheed which is: "To single out Allah Almighty alone for worship, love, and submissiveness to Him by complying to His commands and submitting to them"

http://www.subulussalaam.org/2013/02/an-...lamic.html


Utlimately, everyone possesses within themselves a constant desire for seeking unity in all that surrounds them. The heart naturally finds pleasure and happiness.in knowing the unity behind the multiplicity, or the oneness behind the manyness; the mind naturally wants to make everything in reality into One (tawheed). That is what makes up the very roots of our fitrah. And this fitrah (or inclination) exists inside everyone whether they claim to be atheists or not. Some people may deny that they have such an inclination, but it exists. It is hardwired deep in their psyches, but they just suppress it from their awareness.

Even atheist physicists are motivated by a belief that there must be a single theory for everything - a "Theory of Everything" (TOE) - or that all of reality can be described with a single grand master equation yet unknown to man. So, again, we see that all of this boils down to the idea of "oneness" (tawheed). They have an inner knowing that everything came from a single, unified source. And I think that this itself is a trace of their fitrah. That is not faith per se, but a trace of their fitrah (their innate inclination for believing in tawheed, or oneness).

[Ronga]

No. I don't take Plantingan reformed epistemology too seriously. It all ends up at Agrippa's Trilemma. Which all ends up getting down to the Reformed Epistemologist - if they're honest and not dicks like Plantinga & Craig - to saying that theism and atheism have to be admitted as being equally rational to to them.

You have to be very careful what you take as an axiom, and what you mean when you take on that axion, i.e Are you accepting it as an ontological truth or methodologically useful? God doesn't seem to me to be either self-evidently extant nor explanatorily useful (because it can "explain" ANYTHING), and there are very good reasons to reject it.

I know evolution is true, based on evidence. So i don't believe religion is true, or atleast it's not correct to my conclusion when seeing the evidence of fossils, head skulls etc.

But was more using this theory as an hypothesis.
With the difference between this world and the unknown world, in which, "The unknown" which we have no knowledge about?. And that may have the assumption for God, the unknown basically

But "axiom" was refered to as as one who only needs faith, because that is how faith works. If you believe it to be true, then for that person it is true. But there is a difference between faith and what is real.
So basically, you don't need to have evidence in faith, because religion don't ask that of you. So that's just belief

I don't know if that helps, but my conclusion so far.

[Brakeman]

I don't believe that God is axiomatic (or self-evident) but according to Islamic teachings at least the belief in God is self-ingrained.

This idea is embodied by the Islamic concept of "fitrah."

Fitrah is commonly understood as a type of innate, spiritual quality that inclines every human being towards the belief and submission to

People believe in gods because they are ignorant, stupid, and brainwashed.

There is no ingrained desire for poor reasoning abilities. The quality that psychiatrists refer to is one of attraction to flash and awe, but there is no true connection to imaginary beings.

There is no allah, and muhammad was a pathetic goat man, nothing more. You have no evidence for your beliefs or you would have shared it already, as would have thousands of muslims before you.

Religion is simply ignorance steeped in dishonesty.

[MindForgedManacle]

Chill bro.

[Brakeman]

Chill bro.

Why? Is someone stepping on your superstition?

[MindForgedManacle]

You realize I'm an atheist, right? Taking a look at the 2nd post makes that obvious. And calling Muhammad a 'pathetic goat man' is stupidly reductive. He did begin a massive empire and belief system after all.