Any Vegetarians/Vegans here?

[bennyboy]

All meat-eaters must necessarily accept that in order to sustain themselves, they must cause suffering and death in others.

Why? This seems another assumption on your part sans any evidence so far for the previous assumptions

I think I don't understand what you're getting at. Are there any meat eaters who do not believe that eating meat involves any suffering? If so, there's a serious reality disconnect there. Please clarify.

-- environmentally and health-wise as well as in terms of suffering-- even if you have not specifically stated so.

You don't seem to be making any sense with the above statement, it just sounds like religious dogma regurgitated to sound good and convey guilt

I suspect you think my use of the word "evils" had a religious connotationor implication. I just used it to mean "very bad stuff." I don't see what's dogma about any of this.

Since in Australia, meat-production is also a big business, I'd also hazard a guess that you are willing to accept environmental corruption and animal suffering as part of the exchange of goods-- money for housing, electronic goods, etc. At this point, the word "necessity" starts to lose the ring of truth.

This from a person who lives in Korea which imports 95% of it's food and construction materials from other countries?

How's that apartment you are living in?

Yep, it's true. Korea not only imports much food, shoveling the environmental consequences of consumption onto other countries, it makes the money to do so by running big factories, here or abroad, belching out pollutants.

I live in Korea, but I am Canadian. Canada is similarly situated to Australia, I believe: large countries with low populations and good farmlands, but quite a lot of non-arable land: tundra in Canada, and dry regions in Australia.

You do realise that many of our forest have had to be felled so you can have your kimchi every day?

Would you enjoy some reading material?

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http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/Asia-...index.html

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http://www.biology.ualberta.ca/bsc/engli...r5_ACG.pdf

http://gocanada.about.com/od/canadatrave...canada.htm

http://www.weather-and-climate.com/avera...outh-Korea

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/...limate~143

http://www.murraydarlingwetlands.com.au/...-facts.asp

http://www.murrayriver.com.au/about-the-...ing-basin/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray–Darling_basin

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nati...le1316188/

http://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/econo...LTURE.html

http://www.agriculturemorethanever.ca/ca...log/facts/

http://www.agr.gc.ca/eng/about-us/public...1899760841

http://www.croplife.ca/just-the-facts

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...nd-fishing

http://countrystudies.us/south-korea/52.htm

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/agriculture/in...kets/korea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Australia


http://t.answers.com/answers/#!/entry/wh...89472cce9a

http://australia.gov.au/about-australia/...griculture

Suffice to say the above led to an interesting Sunday afternoon's worth of reading.

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Enjoy.

lol these are all good sources of information. However, you might want to supplement some of them with a summary and a point. What specifically are you trying to say with these links?

[KichigaiNeko]

Going to start another thread to explore this further. A reply may be a wall of text and this thread has wandered off, while still being close to topic I feel. See you there bennyboy. I do find this subject interesting.

[KichigaiNeko]

Hello bennyboy....
as promised an invitation to further our discussions here....... http://atheistforums.org/thread-24144.html

[Little Rik]

I fail to see how Salt (pH 7.5 - 8.4?) mixed with Lemon juice (pH3?) can combine to make an alkaline solution.?

We all fail to see things in life.
I fail to see how so many doctors that study years and years can say that meat is good for us.
If they would be right then the hospitals would be almost empty but how we see this does not happen.
And not only hospitals but nursing homes and even jails would be almost empty as people who end up in jail are also sick (in this case in the head).
In yoga a mixture of lemon salt and water has been the best system to flush the stomach from impurities especially after a fast.
What concern me is not what the expert say but what works for me.



http://www.livestrong.com/article/149222...n-cleanse/

http://www.energiseforlife.com/wordpress...planation/

[Bad Wolf]

Enrico, remember our little chat about the links you keep posting? Do you remember what I said? Or did you just ignore it? We are not taking spiritual, woo, crazy websites as evidence. Please post a link to a scientific, peer-reviewed article that agrees with what you believe.

[Little Rik]

How do you know that? They could just eat a lot of chocolate.

It could be anything really.
Fry food, junk food, eggs and other things but considering that the people who end up with cardiovascular diseases, dementia, Parkinson, Alzheimer, diabetes are mainly eating meat then i have to draw some conclusion.
Saturated fats and cholesterol are not the only shit that cause these diseases.
Toxins in the meat are also playing an important role in making people sick.
You don't get much toxins in fry food, junk food, eggs, chocolate but you get a lot of them in the meat so meat is far the worse of all.
What are the toxins that i am talking about?
When an animals is going to be killed it smell the blood from other animals and it also understand what is going to happen to him so his natural body-mind reaction is to react to this stress by generate toxins.
Toxins end up in the liver and other organs and these impurities make the body-mind sick.
But as you can see idiots even enjoy this filthy business.

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Enrico, remember our little chat about the links you keep posting? Do you remember what I said? Or did you just ignore it? We are not taking spiritual, woo, crazy websites as evidence. Please post a link to a scientific, peer-reviewed article that agrees with what you believe.

I just reply to Kicky about this issue but if you find difficult to get the message i put it in a different way.
In the past the then knowledge was that the planet earth was the center of the universe and that the earth was flat.
If you argue about it they thought that you are mad.
These days too many doctors tell us that meat is good for us.
As we can see this is not the case so what the today science tell us is 100% wrong.
Why should i rely on this scientific peer study when it does not work?
As i just said to Kicky i prefer to rely on something that works for me that is why i don't bother to rely on scientific study that fail.
Capish?

[Bad Wolf]

It could be anything really.
Fry food, junk food, eggs and other things but considering that the people who end up with cardiovascular diseases, dementia, Parkinson, Alzheimer, diabetes are mainly eating meat then i have to draw some conclusion.

Then your conclusion is wrong. How many times do I have to say enrico? Remember my point about the amount of vegetarians compared to meat eaters? If not, go back and read it, I've said about 3 times now I think.

Toxins in the meat are also playing an important role in making people sick.
You don't get much toxins in fry food, junk food, eggs, chocolate but you get a lot of them in the meat so meat is far the worse of all.

What toxins enrico? I want a name, I want a specific name of a toxin that is found in meat.

What are the toxins that i am talking about?
When an animals is going to be killed it smell the blood from other animals and it also understand what is going to happen to him so his natural body-mind reaction is to react to this stress by generate toxins.
Toxins end up in the liver and other organs and these impurities make the body-mind sick.

Evidence? For a claim like this, you Enrico, need evidence. Please post a link to a scientific, peer-reviewed article that agrees with what you say. We do not take your stupid spiritual, yoga websites as evidence. Go and find the evidence and then show it me.

But as you can see idiots even enjoy this filthy business.

This is irrelevant to the point we are making, but somehow I don't think this picture is representative of how they kill cows.

I just reply to Kicky about this issue but if you find difficult to get the message i put it in a different way. In the past the then knowledge was that the planet earth was the center of the universe and that the earth was flat.
If you argue about it they thought that you are mad.

And they were right to think you were mad if you said that. They didn't have any evidence to suggest otherwise. They were wrong but for the right reasons.

These days too many doctors tell us that meat is good for us.
As we can see this is not the case so what the today science tell us is 100% wrong.

No, just no. We can't see that. There have been no scientific, peer -reviewed studies that conclude that eating meat is as bad for us on the scale that you are suggesting. If there was, we wouldn't be eating meat.

Why should i rely on this scientific peer study when it does not work?

Are you fucking kidding me? You have no idea of what the scientific method involves do you? The reason we are arguing from different parts of the world is because of the scientific method. Any and all technology you use today is due to the scientific method. To even suggest for a second, that peer review doesn't work is asinine. This kind of arrogance is incredible. Because science comes up with a conclusion that you don't like, not only do you disagree with it but you imply that the scientific method itself is wrong. Your head must be so big, its a wonder you can walk.

As i just said to Kicky i prefer to rely on something that works for me that is why i don't bother to rely on scientific study that fail.
Capish?

What scientific study has failed? What one are you talking about? I want a specific name of the study and the authors. Right now! Or maybe you are just talking shit again and disagreeing with something without even understanding it.

[Jacob(smooth)]

These days too many doctors tell us that meat is good for us.
As we can see this is not the case so what the today science tell us is 100% wrong.

My God.

He's... He's right guys! He can see something (he says) science says is wrong is wrong! So it stand to reason, SCIENCE IS 100% WRONG!

Oh hell we're all fucked now! My car won't work! My oven runs on electric so that's borked too! And of course this phone won't work!

IT'S THE END! THE END I TELL YOU! ANIC:

[shep]

Veggie here.

[KichigaiNeko]

The above pic, courtesy of enrico, depicts some islamic festival where the community, after eating mostly vegetarian food all year get to slaughter an animal (purchased specifically for the purpose) and carry on like a bunch of excited chimpanzees in the name of their deity?

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Welcome to the mad house Shep