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RE: Would atheist worship The biblical God if his existence was proven?
January 10, 2014 at 2:32 am
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2014 at 2:39 am by Angrboda.)
Positive existential claims, the claim that something exists, bear a clear burden of proof. Claiming that you don't have to meet your burden of proof because someone else has not met theirs is an example of a tu quoque argument, and therefore fallacious. Even if your opponent were proven not to be able to meet his burden of proof, it would not absolve you of the obligation to meet your burden of proof. And for what it's worth, the claim that something does not exist is not a positive existential claim and so would never have the same apportionment of burden of proof as a positive existential claim, as negative existential claims are notoriously difficult to prove, thus apportioning more than a modest burden of proof - easily met by a lack of positive evidence - upon such claims prior to assent would result in a logical explosion of undismissed absurdities, which, of necessity would result in provisional assent to contradictory assertions; in case you're unfamiliar with the form, this results in a disproof of your claim that it shares equal burden of proof by reductio ad absurdum.
Of course, I probably lost you after the first sentence, so, whatever. You still haven't given me the terms of the deal so I can do my cost/benefit analysis on whether worshipping is warranted by the ratio of cost to benefit.
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RE: Would atheist worship The biblical God if his existence was proven?
January 10, 2014 at 3:52 am
(January 9, 2014 at 9:12 pm)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: (January 9, 2014 at 7:35 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Are you making the claim that sin does exist?
You're the one advocating a concept and we're the ones assessing its validity based on your testimony and evidence.
Sorry bucko, you can't shift your burden that easily
It is evidence to most people that creation had a creator. The secularist don't want to feel guilt for their sin and decide that nothing gave birth to something. That seems proof that some divine code instrumental in our morals and laws,
Most people? How very stupid. Define 'most people', and then look up argumentum ad populum, then why you're at it, look up how people are increasingly rejecting the superstitious beliefs of others in increasing droves in most developed states.
And when you've done that, look up the definition of secularism and understand that secularism and atheism have nothing to do with one another. Indeed, secularism was a Protestant Christian idea invented in the 17yh century, and many millions of Christians are also secularists.
Then, and only then, will I consider you remotely intelligent enough to discourse with me.
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RE: Would atheist worship The biblical God if his existence was proven?
January 10, 2014 at 6:44 am
(This post was last modified: January 10, 2014 at 6:44 am by _xenu_.)
(January 8, 2014 at 7:32 pm)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: Would the atheist worship Yahweh if his existence was proven with science. Theist can input too, but I want to see what the atheist has to say. If it was actually proven, that would only be logical, if only in hope of avoiding hellfire. Having said that, its far from proven.
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RE: Would atheist worship The biblical God if his existence was proven?
January 10, 2014 at 7:59 am
Ah shit, now you done messed up, kid. Time to wade in.
(January 9, 2014 at 9:12 pm)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: It is evidence to most people that creation had a creator.
Stop!
Before we allow your premise, what evidence have you given that we inhabit, in fact, a creation? The answer is none; you simply wish to slip in by fiat assertion that the universe is a creation, and that's not something any of us are just going to accept sans evidence. Therefore, your conclusion simply does not follow, regardless of what "most" people think.
Quote: The secularist don't want to feel guilt for their sin
Okay, so first of all, and you better pay attention: you don't know me. You don't know any of us. So where do you get the sheer, pendulum swinging balls to presume you know what we think? Just where the hell do you get off? We don't begin our conversations by forcibly reinterpreting your baseline motivations so that we don't have to do any work demonstrating our position; none of us have told you that you really know there's no god, and you're just afraid of dying and disappearing. What is it you want? You can either have a decent conversation with us where you actually learn about what we think and express your position honestly in the light of the facts, or you can sit there slinging mud until nobody wants to talk to you. But if both sides of this decided to do this, all you'd have is two groups of people making up fantasies about the other and talking past them. You'd have Fox News.
Second thing, since you haven't demonstrated sin, you can't take it as granted that we all secretly believe in it anyway, so...
Quote: and decide that nothing gave birth to something.
Do you want to know what we actually think, or do you want to sit here making up lies and breaking the commandments of your own religion? It's your choice, but I think if you wanted to be consistent with what you purport to believe, you'd backtrack on this statement and just ask us what we think, instead of deciding you already know it in the face of everyone here telling you you're wrong.
Quote:That seems proof that some divine code instrumental in our morals and laws,
What does? That a lot of people believe it? No.
A lot of people believed the earth was flat, at one time. Did that make the earth any less three dimensional? If the majority of people on the planet were muslim, would that make your god wink out of existence to be replaced by Allah, to you?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: Would atheist worship The biblical God if his existence was proven?
January 10, 2014 at 8:11 am
Actually friends and wellwishers here.
Based on the OP's Post:
Quote:Would the atheist worship Yahweh if his existence was proven with science. Theist can input too, but I want to see what the atheist has to say.
Would render everyone a Christian by just acknowledging that Yahweh existed. As surely Christians believe in God right now and that is their pre-requisite for eternal life. However if Yahweh was proven by science this would mean that everyone automaticlly becomes a believer thus the question of worship is irrelevant as Jesus said all we needed was belief!
Take that boyo.
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RE: Would atheist worship The biblical God if his existence was proven?
January 10, 2014 at 11:15 am
I'm sure my answer is the same as many others but I'd opt to not worship Yahweh. I'd accept his existence for sure, if it was proven but just because that entity exists, doesn't warrant me worshiping it. It has proven to be careless, heavy-handed, and has miss-managed literally everything it does despite being all-knowing. If it's not even a perfect being, it's just some kind of aloof creator of humanity. That's good for it and all, but that doesn't make it perfect just because it managed to spawn some things into existence. I'd rather see the scientific community seek out Yahweh as it would be great for humanity to meet its creator.
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RE: Would atheist worship The biblical God if his existence was proven?
January 11, 2014 at 4:27 am
(This post was last modified: January 11, 2014 at 4:29 am by Ryantology.)
(January 8, 2014 at 9:14 pm)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: I am sure God wanted to show the depth of hi love by sacrificing what mattered most to him. His son Jesus died on the cross as a show of love for humanity. We may not deserve his forgiving love but that just show how compassionate God is. Your god is omnipotent. He could make a million Jesuses if he wanted to.
Also, having your son violently murdered for a symbolic purpose makes you a psychopath, and slobbering that being's knob in thanks for it makes you no better.
Quote:Aren't people slaves to what they believe in and desire anyway. Humans are naturally vindictive and need faith to curtail our evil and so often very selfish desires.
Naturally? So, God made us this way?
Quote:People would rather entertain themselves and give money to what amuses and pleases them than help those who are in pain or innocent children dying in third world countries.
And your god would rather obsess over who's having sex with whom than snap his magical fingers and instantly end all misery forever.
Quote:This corrupt sinful world needs Christ as an example of how to be charitable and loving. Without Jesus we are slaves to a different set of masters whether they be selfish desires or ideas and other beliefs we may hold. Humanity is rotten and needs Jesus.
People like you are the reason the world is as shitty as it is.
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RE: Would atheist worship The biblical God if his existence was proven?
January 11, 2014 at 5:23 am
“The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
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RE: Would atheist worship The biblical God if his existence was proven?
January 11, 2014 at 12:33 pm
This is assuming that the person worships to begin with, which I do not.
Would I admire this being? It depends on what actions it takes, what it has in plan.
I am still gone but I can still peep in on my phone.
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RE: Would atheist worship The biblical God if his existence was proven?
January 11, 2014 at 12:39 pm
(January 8, 2014 at 7:32 pm)Sinnersburninhell100 Wrote: Would the atheist worship Yahweh if his existence was proven with science. Theist can input too, but I want to see what the atheist has to say.
If the bible is accurate in its description of God's actions and attitudes then HELL no. He's a racist genocidal tyrant.
I might acknowledge his existence if it could be demonstrated but I'd never WORSHIP the bastard. Even if displays of worship were tortured and coerced out of me there'd be nothing but contempt for him in my mind.
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