On the logic of nationalism

[kılıç_mehmet]

I do have a question for you kılıç, what do you think of Χρυσή Αυγή in Greece?

Golden Dawn?
I offer no official support to any other nationalistic group or ideology besides mine.
However, I see the rise of nationalism and nationalistic sentiment in many countries as a good thing, only if they were genuine and without the taint of banality.
The Golden Dawn might just archive a better status in my eyes if they were to emulate Metaxas instead of being cheap neo-nazi imitators.

---

Well, in order to destroy an identity, you must provide a better alternative to that identity.
What do you offer?

I offer the ubermensch who will create new values & identities.

Based on what?
All identities and values are based on something What is your basis?

You can't force people to all live and work together, we are different! We should have peace yes, and no violence. Yet you are advocating for a violent overthrow of nations and religions.... ok... quite the communist thing to say. We can do it peacefully and bring peace to this earth in a non-violent fashion, you are the one who wants violence not I.

Yes indeed its the communist thing to say. After all, their whole ideology is built on the denial of national identities, cultures, traditions, languages and etc. as nothing more than "social constructs that have no relevance to the plight of the working class".
However, if nationalism, and love for the nation would be the rule of thumb for a country, no social class would be treated unfairly, as all social classes must operate in harmony to bring about the realisation of national goals and prosperity.

[Cato]

It sounds like many of you are trying to put the genie back in the bottle. The ability to get anywhere in the world in a day's travel and instant global communication has shattered the lamp. The sad part is that instead of embracing and sharing cultural differences, some want to glue the lamp back together in order to exclude others and keep cherished traditional bigotry.

Nationalism breaks down to nothing more than a marketing term for tribalism; my tribe is good, others are bad. If your approximation of utopia is the Balkanization of the entire planet, do your best. I and the majority of other humans will feverishly oppose you. In my travels and experience I have concluded that all humans share the exact same basic needs and desires. We have been taught to achieve these in various ways due to our traditional relative isolation, but we are now able to learn from one another and integrate culturally to the extent we offer mutual respect and tolerance.

I'm saddened knowing some want to crawl back in and rabidly protect their cave; which, is only their's by the accident of birth. Dining at the smorgasbord of life is much better for all.

[paintpooper]

It sounds like many of you are trying to put the genie back in the bottle. The ability to get anywhere in the world in a day's travel and instant global communication has shattered the lamp. The sad part is that instead of embracing and sharing cultural differences, some want to glue the lamp back together in order to exclude others and keep cherished traditional bigotry.

Nationalism breaks down to nothing more than a marketing term for tribalism; my tribe is good, others are bad. If your approximation of utopia is the Balkanization of the entire planet, do your best. I and the majority of other humans will feverishly oppose you. In my travels and experience I have concluded that all humans share the exact same basic needs and desires. We have been taught to achieve these in various ways due to our traditional relative isolation, but we are now able to learn from one another and integrate culturally to the extent we offer mutual respect and tolerance.

I'm saddened knowing some want to crawl back in and rabidly protect their cave; which, is only their's by the accident of birth. Dining at the smorgasbord of life is much better for all.

My tribe is good, others are bad? Where did you come up with that. It is more like my tribe is my tribe, your tribe is your tribe. Would you like to trade goods? Would you like to share knowledge? You may come into my tribe as a guest but you will not share the same rights and privileges as the people of my tribe, but you are welcome to live among us if you follow our values, language, culture and so forth. If you commit a crime you will be imprisoned and deported..

[EgoRaptor]

I do have a question for you kılıç, what do you think of Χρυσή Αυγή in Greece?

Golden Dawn?
I offer no official support to any other nationalistic group or ideology besides mine.
However, I see the rise of nationalism and nationalistic sentiment in many countries as a good thing, only if they were genuine and without the taint of banality.
The Golden Dawn might just archive a better status in my eyes if they were to emulate Metaxas instead of being cheap neo-nazi imitators.

---

I offer the ubermensch who will create new values & identities.

Based on what?
All identities and values are based on something What is your basis?

You can't force people to all live and work together, we are different! We should have peace yes, and no violence. Yet you are advocating for a violent overthrow of nations and religions.... ok... quite the communist thing to say. We can do it peacefully and bring peace to this earth in a non-violent fashion, you are the one who wants violence not I.

Yes indeed its the communist thing to say. After all, their whole ideology is built on the denial of national identities, cultures, traditions, languages and etc. as nothing more than "social constructs that have no relevance to the plight of the working class".
However, if nationalism, and love for the nation would be the rule of thumb for a country, no social class would be treated unfairly, as all social classes must operate in harmony to bring about the realisation of national goals and prosperity.

The ubermensch will build new values based off individuality.

Let me rephrase my question about the Golden Dawn. If Nikolaos Michaloliakos or Ilias Kasidiaris were to visit Turkey would you treat him as you would Gabor Vona, tar & feather him & send him out on a rail or just be indifferent?

---

Lennon had a noble dream. His dream can however, only be brought about by the violent destruction of all national & religious identities & the system that backs them. I, for one, am all for a peaceful world without religion or nationalism, but we must be realistic in our pursuit of this goal. We must use eugenics to breed the ubermensch who is to be the new and will lead us to our goal. We must use violence to purify the Earth of nationalism & religion. The World Anarchist Republic shall be born of blood!

We need separate counties and separate nations because they are separate races of people, who share different values, different religions, cultures, social norms, and many other things that make us all different. Now different does not mean one is better then the other, it just means not the same.

You can't force people to all live and work together, we are different! We should have peace yes, and no violence. Yet you are advocating for a violent overthrow of nations and religions.... ok... quite the communist thing to say. We can do it peacefully and bring peace to this earth in a non-violent fashion, you are the one who wants violence not I.

Nations are what binds people together, when you end up with a nation with no identity you have destruction violence and chaos. You have conflicting views and cultures.

The Western world already basically shares a culture. First the West shall be united peacefully. Then we shall start the eugenics program & strengthen ourselves. When we go to conquer the world it shall not even be a fight, but a momentous massacre of our enemies!

[kılıç_mehmet]

Let me rephrase my question about the Golden Dawn. If Nikolaos Michaloliakos or Ilias Kasidiaris were to visit Turkey would you treat him as you would Gabor Vona, tar & feather him & send him out on a rail or just be indifferent?

The thing is that they would not visit Turkey, not seek us as supporters or allies.
As I said, nationalism is nothing like socialism or communism. We do not have a "nationalist international" type of an organisation where nationalists from all countries come to decide on a common course of action.

And if they were to visit Turkey, I personally would not be showing any kind of reaction as our enemies are not the Golden Dawn, but I hardly count them amongst our allies.
I merely respect their course of action regarding their own people.

It sounds like many of you are trying to put the genie back in the bottle. The ability to get anywhere in the world in a day's travel and instant global communication has shattered the lamp. The sad part is that instead of embracing and sharing cultural differences, some want to glue the lamp back together in order to exclude others and keep cherished traditional bigotry.
for all.

Embracing and sharing cultural differences is nationalism.
Internationalism on the other hand is bent on destroying cultural differences in favor of a single humanity, as humanity can never be whole unless it has a single consciousness, just like nation, which would require a single race, single culture, single language, and single heritage.

Nationalism breaks down to nothing more than a marketing term for tribalism; my tribe is good, others are bad. If your approximation of utopia is the Balkanization of the entire planet, do your best. I and the majority of other humans will feverishly oppose you. In my travels and experience I have concluded that all humans share the exact same basic needs and desires. We have been taught to achieve these in various ways due to our traditional relative isolation, but we are now able to learn from one another and integrate culturally to the extent we offer mutual respect and tolerance.

I'm saddened knowing some want to crawl back in and rabidly protect their cave; which, is only their's by the accident of birth. Dining at the smorgasbord of life is much better

Nationalism is not an ideology based on reaction to another nation.
But it can be the cause of reaction to another nation if the interests of these two nations are in conflict. This is the natural order of the world.
We're not advocating balkanisation, as we cannot divide humanity at will, it already has been defined with lines that have been moulded throughout centuries, lines that you too, must respect.
Languages, cultures, ethnicities, they were not created overnight.
The fact that humans, just like animals, share the same basic needs, does not make for a solid identity, and does not inspire people. A slave too can have its most basic needs when his master grants him, but the need for liberty is one that is reserved for those who have higher aspirations than what we deem to be basic needs.
As for your mutual respect and tolerance, and "cultural integration", all I see is the utter disrespect and intolerance of the international "culture" of materialism that forces others to integrate into its mentality, and to forsake their cultures and traditions, just so they can market their goods better.
How well are you integrated in my culture? How much do you know about it?
You don't, since the international cultural domination is not based on actual culture, but on an artificial, rootless culture that everyone can associate to, but while doing that, lose their own identities aswell, just so they can fit into "world citizenship".
Your views are flawed and naive.

[paintpooper]

Golden Dawn?
I offer no official support to any other nationalistic group or ideology besides mine.
However, I see the rise of nationalism and nationalistic sentiment in many countries as a good thing, only if they were genuine and without the taint of banality.
The Golden Dawn might just archive a better status in my eyes if they were to emulate Metaxas instead of being cheap neo-nazi imitators.

---

Based on what?
All identities and values are based on something What is your basis?

Yes indeed its the communist thing to say. After all, their whole ideology is built on the denial of national identities, cultures, traditions, languages and etc. as nothing more than "social constructs that have no relevance to the plight of the working class".
However, if nationalism, and love for the nation would be the rule of thumb for a country, no social class would be treated unfairly, as all social classes must operate in harmony to bring about the realisation of national goals and prosperity.

The ubermensch will build new values based off individuality.

Let me rephrase my question about the Golden Dawn. If Nikolaos Michaloliakos or Ilias Kasidiaris were to visit Turkey would you treat him as you would Gabor Vona, tar & feather him & send him out on a rail or just be indifferent?

---

We need separate counties and separate nations because they are separate races of people, who share different values, different religions, cultures, social norms, and many other things that make us all different. Now different does not mean one is better then the other, it just means not the same.

You can't force people to all live and work together, we are different! We should have peace yes, and no violence. Yet you are advocating for a violent overthrow of nations and religions.... ok... quite the communist thing to say. We can do it peacefully and bring peace to this earth in a non-violent fashion, you are the one who wants violence not I.

Nations are what binds people together, when you end up with a nation with no identity you have destruction violence and chaos. You have conflicting views and cultures.

The Western world already basically shares a culture. First the West shall be united peacefully. Then we shall start the eugenics program & strengthen ourselves. When we go to conquer the world it shall not even be a fight, but a momentous massacre of our enemies!

Your tribes time is almost up.The massacre will not be of us, but of you, IF you choose war, if you choose peace we all win, that is up to you.

[Anomalocaris]

What does a conversation between two idiots who have recently also become derranged sound like?

I guess now we know.

[Cato]

My tribe is good, others are bad? Where did you come up with that. It is more like my tribe is my tribe, your tribe is your tribe. Would you like to trade goods? Would you like to share knowledge? You may come into my tribe as a guest but you will not share the same rights and privileges as the people of my tribe, but you are welcome to live among us if you follow our values, language, culture and so forth. If you commit a crime you will be imprisoned and deported..

Excellent demonstration of my argument.

[paintpooper]

My tribe is good, others are bad? Where did you come up with that. It is more like my tribe is my tribe, your tribe is your tribe. Would you like to trade goods? Would you like to share knowledge? You may come into my tribe as a guest but you will not share the same rights and privileges as the people of my tribe, but you are welcome to live among us if you follow our values, language, culture and so forth. If you commit a crime you will be imprisoned and deported..

Excellent demonstration of my argument.

No, your argument was that other tribes are "bad".

How does this validate anything you said? No one hates one another but respects we are different and in turn we should have our own "caves" as you put it.

[EgoRaptor]

The ubermensch will build new values based off individuality.

Let me rephrase my question about the Golden Dawn. If Nikolaos Michaloliakos or Ilias Kasidiaris were to visit Turkey would you treat him as you would Gabor Vona, tar & feather him & send him out on a rail or just be indifferent?

---

The Western world already basically shares a culture. First the West shall be united peacefully. Then we shall start the eugenics program & strengthen ourselves. When we go to conquer the world it shall not even be a fight, but a momentous massacre of our enemies!

Your tribes time is almost up.The massacre will not be of us, but of you, IF you choose war, if you choose peace we all win, that is up to you.

You cannot defeat the ubermensch! You will lose! Nationalism is weak, the ubermensch is strong! The weak will die off in favor of the strong, this is the way of things.