Deepak Chopra attacks Skepticism

[Pippy]

hey Adrian,

You're right about the absolute truth that there is not absolute truth being contradictory. It is just hard to define. There is a sense of absolute truth about simple physics separate from too much human interpretation. But anything that is in any way complex, or requiring a lot of human interpretation seems to be less able to be proven completely. And it is important I think to not get lost in what you have decided you know to be true, and to be very open-minded about what you don't know for sure. In a vague sense, not you personally at all.

I mean, how can you pragmatically decide what song is better or best, or concepts of ancient human pre-history? They are too far removed to necessitate absolute truth.

and the fact that non-omniscient beings cannot know absolute truths (or at least know that something they know is an absolute truth) is the main part of the debate.

An interesting and valid point. That we as humans may not be able to know for sure most things... But it isn't for lack of trying or want, is it? From one truth seeker to another (although we may disagree on a few of the truths ), it is a never ending adventure.

May be it is more about lies. May be that is more a pinnacle of skepticism, that if we can't prove what is true we may as well try to prove what is not true. To think and problem-solve from that angle? Oh, but that is a fallacy. I remember. But I think I can prove something didn't happen almost as well as I can prove that something did.

Sorry for carrying on again,
Thanks for listening,
-Pip

[littlegrimlin1]

Ah yes... truth is a conceptual thing (as truth does not exist without minds). Do we acutally know any Absolute truths? Like uh... Apple = Apple? Is that an absolute truth... or just a statment? Do we have to make statments to imply an absolute truth?

[theVOID]

Pippy, i don't think you realize just what it means for a peddler like Deepak to attack skepticism, it is because skeptics are bad for business. Deepak is flat out lying about Quantum Mechanics to make money - the only reason he is able to do this is because people aren't skeptical enough!

I remember in a video lecture when Deepak was talking abut Quantum Healing, a member of the audience asked him to recite Planck Length to 3 decimal places (1.616) and he couldn't! He doesn't even know the most fundamental aspects of quantum mechanics, he can't do a single quantum mechanical calculation yet HE MAKES MONEY selling the stuff, it makes me fucking furious when these bullshit con artists can get away with shit like that in public!

[Pippy]

the list of bullshit artists is very, very long my friend. I have read some very nice things by Deepak, and have never seen this side of him that you guys describe. I take your word on it though, may be he is a bit of a fraud.

[theVOID]

the list of bullshit artists is very, very long my friend. I have read some very nice things by Deepak, and have never seen this side of him that you guys describe. I take your word on it though, may be he is a bit of a fraud.

Sure, all the con artists have some nice lovey dovey things to say, but genuine good people don't claim they can heal your mind and body through bastardized quantum mechanics, they don't sell you something that not only cannot be proven to work, but something that he can't even demonstrate an understanding of.

"Here is an extraordinary new approach to healing by an extraordinary physician-philosopher-writer, a book filled with the mystery, wonder, and hope of people who have experienced seemingly miraculous recoveries from cancer and other serious illnesses. Dr. Deepak Chopra began his search for answers when he saw patients in his own practice that completely recovered after being given only a few months to live. In the mid-1980's he returned to his native India to explore Ayurveda, humanities most ancient healing tradition. Now he has brought together the current research of Western medicine, neuroscience, and physics with the insights of Ayurvedic theory to show that the human body is controlled by a "network of intelligence" grounded in quantum reality. Not a superficial psychological state, this intelligence lies deep enough to change the basic patterns that design our physiology with the potential to defeat cancer, heart disease, and even aging itself. In this inspiring and pioneering work, Dr. Chopra offers us both a fascinating intellectual journey and a deeply moving chronicle of hope and healing".

The blood is on his hands for any single person who skips real medical treatment on account of his bullshit and dies from it. People get scared of surgery and chemotherapy, of course they will be tempted by the wanker who tells them humming in your ear will do just-as-good of a job.

[Pippy]

Yeah, but in that sense there is a lot of blood on a lot of hands. I have looked into it a little, and although the guy can write a half decent book, you are right that he is a little misrepresenty (that's a cool new word).

I see more blood on the hands of the people that made popular the conception that depression or sadness, or just the lack of ecstatic happiness is not part of human life, but a mental disability. There is blood on the hands of the people who do whatever it is that is causing a rise in auto-immune disorders, like Diabetes and stuff. Whatever it is that is causing the rise in "autism like disorders". Heck there is blood on the hands of the companies that made that stupid swine flu shot, and on the WHO and gov't bodies for pushing an agenda of fear and comlicity. They tried to have a recall a couple weeks ago in Canada, but almost every dose of the vaccine that they tried to recall was already administered. Hoorah, the saftey system works!

I guess my beleaguered point is that yes Deepak is a little bit of a flim-flam artist, but we are unfortunately in a world of them...

Thanks,
-Pip

[Amphora]

Though I am not a skeptic. I hate it when people advertise about a particular subject, and not know a single thing about it.

[theVOID]

Yeah, but in that sense there is a lot of blood on a lot of hands. I have looked into it a little, and although the guy can write a half decent book, you are right that he is a little misrepresenty (that's a cool new word).

Real word?

Deepak is more than just 'misrepresenty', he's a liar selling a product that does not work based on ideas that he simply does not understand.

I see more blood on the hands of the people that made popular the conception that depression or sadness, or just the lack of ecstatic happiness is not part of human life, but a mental disability.

Yep - Psychiatry has had some bad ideas, but there is a difference imo between people who do the wrong thing unintentionally and those who know they don't know shit about what they're selling and do it anyway, such as Chopra.

There is blood on the hands of the people who do whatever it is that is causing a rise in auto-immune disorders, like Diabetes and stuff.

It's more accepted that we are just getting better and diagnosing more benign cases.

Whatever it is that is causing the rise in "autism like disorders"

What's this based on? You're not talking about the claim that the MMR vaccine caused Autism are you? Because that has been very well refuted.

Heck there is blood on the hands of the companies that made that stupid swine flu shot, and on the WHO and gov't bodies for pushing an agenda of fear and comlicity. They tried to have a recall a couple weeks ago in Canada, but almost every dose of the vaccine that they tried to recall was already administered. Hoorah, the saftey system works!

Woah, got more details on this? I'm not familiar with the Swine Flu or the vaccine beyond basics, it's not a very big deal at all here.

I guess my beleaguered point is that yes Deepak is a little bit of a flim-flam artist, but we are unfortunately in a world of them...

Just because there are many of them does not justify any of them

[Pippy]

No it doesn't.

You could type it in google, but here, because you asked.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/24...68776.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/SwineFluNew...id=9162438

Remember how I was a crazy person who didn't understand science when I said that I felt the fast tracking of these 6 vaccines might be dangerous. In fact, it was one of the few times I applauded Bill Maher, as he had a nice piece about it. At least we got the GSK one (although it has been recalled), you guys in the UK and Europe got the Baxter one. Luckily Baxter is barred from inoculating North America after they shipped AIDS tainted, and Bird Flu tainted materials...

Remember the article about how it is completely normal, statistically speaking to have 4 spontaneous abortions within 24 hours of vaccination with a large enough control group.

At least I didn't bring up Joseph Moshe, and a Ukrainian bio-weapon. See I know what the tin-foil hat people are talking about, but that doesn't make me one of them.

[theVOID]

6 patients presenting allergies from 170,000 doses distributed and an immediate recall is a non-issue pippy. They were quick to act and nobody was seriously injured. Small instances like this don't in my opinion invalidate the science of vaccines, it comes down to intrinsic human error more than anything.

What validates a vaccine as worth while is when it saves more lives than it costs lives in making the expected outcome more favorable statistically than the chances of dying from the original vaccine, for example if 1/100,000 will catch a disease and 1/1,000,000 will die but you can take a vaccine that has 1/1,000,000 chance of getting minor side effects and 1/10,000,000 chance of death then you have still reduced the overall number of fatalities by a beneficial amount - ultimately making the vaccine worthwhile.

If there is a risk of losing a pregnancy while taking a vaccine then maybe you should avoid the vaccine instead and try hide behind herd immunity.