Does anyone belong to a twelve step program?

[Phatt Matt s]

The second step is came to beleive that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

step 3: Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him

Step 6: were entirely ready to have God remove these defects of Character

"no human power could relieve our alcoholism but God could and would if He were sought"
"for our group conscience there is one ultimate authority, a loving God as He may express Himself. May you find Him today"

For those who are atheist and apart of this program, how do you work these "God-Centered" steps?

Can a person call God the energy that created the big bang, the Whatever it is that is responsible for beautiful landscapes, flowers, and breasts?

Not some dude with a beard who shoots lighting bolts out of His ass!!

---

Also,
I got some pms that are indicating to me that my life at this forum will end before my time if I keep breaking the rules so please let me know if my posts are a violation.

Thanks!

[My imaginary friend is GOD]

It's been shown that trying to kick addiction by one's self is about equally likely to be a success as trying to do it with a support group, so if I had such a problem, I wouldn't bother with a 12-step program.

[Phatt Matt s]

It's been shown that trying to kick addiction by one's self is about equally likely to be a success as trying to do it with a support group, so if I had such a problem, I wouldn't bother with a 12-step program.

One thing that's helpful is having a Sponsor I can call when there is a craving. Also, it can be helpful talking to people about why we drink/use.

There are people who were low life drunks living under a bridge who have 20 - 30+ years sober who can share how they did it.

[My imaginary friend is GOD]

One thing that's helpful is having a Sponsor I can call when there is a craving. Also, it can be helpful talking to people about why we drink/use.

There are people who were low life drunks living under a bridge who have 20 - 30+ years sober who can share how they did it.

That's nice, but the bottom line is your results will come from whether or not you truly want to stay clean/sober, and nothing anybody else does can change that. It would probably do you more good to speak to a psychiatrist or a psychologist about the reasons why you drink/use and work with him/her on resolving those issues than simply spilling your guts to random people.

[Phatt Matt s]

One thing that's helpful is having a Sponsor I can call when there is a craving. Also, it can be helpful talking to people about why we drink/use.

There are people who were low life drunks living under a bridge who have 20 - 30+ years sober who can share how they did it.

That's nice, but the bottom line is your results will come from whether or not you truly want to stay clean/sober, and nothing anybody else does can change that. It would probably do you more good to speak to a psychiatrist or a psychologist about the reasons why you drink/use and work with him/her on resolving those issues than simply spilling your guts to random people.

Psychiatrists and mental health professionals often don't know what they're talking about. Some are good.

ussually it is more helpful relating to someone who has been up the same shit creek

[SteelCurtain]

It's been shown that trying to kick addiction by one's self is about equally likely to be a success as trying to do it with a support group, so if I had such a problem, I wouldn't bother with a 12-step program.

This is because the vast majority of people that join 12-step programs don't work the steps. The numbers skew heavily towards success for people who get a sponsor, attend multiple meetings per week, and talk regularly. When you just go to meetings, you are effectively doing the same as trying to take care of it on your own.

One of my duties as an officer in the Navy was to run some of the 12-step groups on ship. I am certified, and I know this stuff, and there were several guys that ran into this problem. It is actually fairly common. You just have to have "God" be something bigger than you. A lot of guys chose the actual group they're attending, the cosmos, the ocean (Navy...), or even music. Something that inspires them, something bigger than them, it's important that addicts believe that there is something they can turn to to find peace and serenity. Step 6 is all about accepting help. Being humble enough to know that you can't do it by yourself. The most important by-product of step 6 is placing your pride in getting better, that letting others help isn't a bad thing.

The steps work, as long as you work them.

[Shell B]

It's been shown that trying to kick addiction by one's self is about equally likely to be a success as trying to do it with a support group, so if I had such a problem, I wouldn't bother with a 12-step program.

Boo! Sources?

---

That's nice, but the bottom line is your results will come from whether or not you truly want to stay clean/sober, and nothing anybody else does can change that. It would probably do you more good to speak to a psychiatrist or a psychologist about the reasons why you drink/use and work with him/her on resolving those issues than simply spilling your guts to random people.

Mental health professionals/trained professionals typically run these things. There are meetings all the time at my clinic. I don't think it is a good idea to be discouraging about stuff like this. I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do, but we're talking about people's well-being here. They should reach out for whatever help is available to them to get clean. Those random people often become their beacons in the storm, so to speak.

[Chas]

One thing that's helpful is having a Sponsor I can call when there is a craving. Also, it can be helpful talking to people about why we drink/use.

There are people who were low life drunks living under a bridge who have 20 - 30+ years sober who can share how they did it.

That's nice, but the bottom line is your results will come from whether or not you truly want to stay clean/sober, and nothing anybody else does can change that. It would probably do you more good to speak to a psychiatrist or a psychologist about the reasons why you drink/use and work with him/her on resolving those issues than simply spilling your guts to random people.

I disagree. I have known some who succeeded on their own, but many more who had support of some kind.

12-Step programs are certainly not the only path to sobriety; they may not even be the best. But for many (most?) people, having the support and encouragement from others increases the chance of success.

I went to AA as an atheist and I'm still an atheist. The Steps can be done without any gods, they can be interpreted without any woo.

[Phatt Matt s]

It's been shown that trying to kick addiction by one's self is about equally likely to be a success as trying to do it with a support group, so if I had such a problem, I wouldn't bother with a 12-step program.

This is because the vast majority of people that join 12-step programs don't work the steps. The numbers skew heavily towards success for people who get a sponsor, attend multiple meetings per week, and talk regularly. When you just go to meetings, you are effectively doing the same as trying to take care of it on your own.

One of my duties as an officer in the Navy was to run some of the 12-step groups on ship. I am certified, and I know this stuff, and there were several guys that ran into this problem. It is actually fairly common. You just have to have "God" be something bigger than you. A lot of guys chose the actual group they're attending, the cosmos, the ocean (Navy...), or even music. Something that inspires them, something bigger than them, it's important that addicts believe that there is something they can turn to to find peace and serenity. Step 6 is all about accepting help. Being humble enough to know that you can't do it by yourself. The most important by-product of step 6 is placing your pride in getting better, that letting others help isn't a bad thing.

The steps work, as long as you work them.

Thanks! You get rep points for that.

Also, drugs and alcohol are a higher power. THey kill more people and ruin more lives than Napolean, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Pope Francis combined.

---

It's been shown that trying to kick addiction by one's self is about equally likely to be a success as trying to do it with a support group, so if I had such a problem, I wouldn't bother with a 12-step program.

Boo! Sources?

---

That's nice, but the bottom line is your results will come from whether or not you truly want to stay clean/sober, and nothing anybody else does can change that. It would probably do you more good to speak to a psychiatrist or a psychologist about the reasons why you drink/use and work with him/her on resolving those issues than simply spilling your guts to random people.

Mental health professionals/trained professionals typically run these things. There are meetings all the time at my clinic. I don't think it is a good idea to be discouraging about stuff like this. I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do, but we're talking about people's well-being here. They should reach out for whatever help is available to them to get clean. Those random people often become their beacons in the storm, so to speak.

Thanks Babe! You get points for that. Way to be looking out for the well being of others. You're ahead of most Christians.

You radiate a sparkling light from thy complexion clearer and more intense than a glittering crystal filled with sparkling water, transpierced by rays of the most conflagrant sun as thou illuminates my world oh light of my life!

[My imaginary friend is GOD]

I just think it is reckless to go about recovery that way. My grandmother who I have posted about on these forums before has joined several support groups including AA, and she just reveled in everyone else's drama and let other people in the groups influence her negatively. It seems more prudent to consult a professional who knows how to get to the root of the problem and actually work to help resolve it.