God - a study in pointlessness.

[Chas]

So.... who wrote that part of the bible? Adam? Eve? Could they write?

Traditionally, Moses. There's some evidence of contributions by other writers.

And no evidence that Moses wrote it. Or even existed.

[pocaracas]

What doesn't make sense to me is: Why is faith a requirement?
Why the need for a book?... specially a book that comes after other similar books already exist...

Brother imagine one thing. You go to your employer. Tell him to his face that you don't believe that he is your employer and you start doing your work against all the standard operating procedures. Do you think you will remain part of the company for long?

There's a contract that defines very well who is the employer and who is the employee...
In the case of a god, however... one of the sides is very sketchy!

Faith is very important brother for any system to work. Tell me does any system works if you don't have confidence and trust on it?

You don't even get a software if you don't agree to the terms and agreements.
Can you even live in a country without abiding to its laws ?

Again tell me honestly if all this system does turn out to be true, do you really think a faithful and the unfaithful should be equal in front of God? If God does exits and treats both the believer and the unbeliever equally then this is a big injustice.

In this context, "faith" and "trust" are two very distinct concepts.
Trust is sort of my assumption that someone else will (notice the future tense) behave as previously agreed. This assumption is usually weighed by experience with that someone else.


Faith is the blind acceptance that what someone unknown claims is true. Ultimately, regarding the claim of the existence of a god, it is the blind acceptance that such a being exists (notice the present tense).

Quran says

I don't care what your preferred holy book has written in it.
Whatever it is, it was written by some person. Possibly, some person very knowledgeable of human psychology, even if only by experience, rendering your understanding of what is written exactly what that person intended... but it's not necessarily an honest, truthful or accurate depiction of reality.
It is what you want to hear.

Why the need for a book?... specially a book that comes after other similar books already exist...

That is good that you realized the similarity. Since the beginning, human beings have been tested with the message that was essentially the same. And the message was conveyed through the prophet at the given time. Every time the prophet passed away and the true message got corrupted over the time, a new prophet came to restore the original message. But this chain of Prophets ended with Muhammad (peace be upon him). Why it ended? Because the message is well preserved in Quran and will remain preserved till the end of time.

Since the message was same, all the humanity faced and is facing the same test through different scenarios.

For me this makes totally sense that only one book is determining the rise and fall of individuals, societies and nations because:
1) There is only one Creator. One God means one message for whole humanity.
2) If there was even one more books then it would bring chaos. Two books mean two books with different dos and don'ts. Consider you and I follow different books. In your book drinking alcohol was allowed and in my it was prohibited. Do you think this makes sense?
3) All the dos and donts are actually whats good for us and what is not good for us. Like you get an instruction manual when you buy a machine. Think of two different instruction manuals for the same machine.

OR human psychology is all too similar across the board and ends up inventing similar solutions o the same problem.
Now, have I ever seen a god? No. Have I ever seen two or more people independently arriving at the same solution for the same problem? multiple times!
Given this track record, which is more likely? God exists, or mankind made it up multiple times?

[Subhan Ahmad]

@pocaracas, Brother one more thing more about why one book. You see one thing we all human beings want is justice. And still we are searching for justice. That is why revolutions over revolutions came to eliminate injustice. For example some thought communism will bring justice but they proved to be wrong. Now people thing capitalism will bring justice but again its short comings are coming forward. Some think feminism will protect the female rights, you will find short comings in their philosophy too. Atheists believe that if all this religion stuff goes away then there will be justice in the world (I guess). So we are all searching for just system.

As a muslims, we believe Quran is the word of God. Quran and the life of Prophet Muhammad provides teaching to every aspects of human life, economics, religion, finance , Everything. So a knowledge to bring and implement a just system is already been given to us.
If Quran is indeed the word of our Creator and Prophets are his messengers. Who could know better than the one Who created us ? Who can guide us better than the one Who created us?

[pocaracas]

Islam is far from just...even by the faulty democratic point of view.

[Subhan Ahmad]

Islam is far from just...even by the faulty democratic point of view.

That's the opinion you hold and you have your reasons. But I disagree because I have my reasons.

What science does according to me is it explains how the painting is made, what colors are use, and what strokes are made. What it does not explain according to me is that who is holding the paint brush?

[Heliocentrism]

What's the difference between that - and no god at all?

The situation can exist whether there is a god or not. What I was saying is "why blame God for it?"

So basically your idea of god is someone who sits on his lazy butt and watches injustices occur.

Ah, Hitler is killing millions of Jewish people...oh well...hey Peter, hand me the remote...I think Cops is on.

I'd rather think of god as non existent.

[pocaracas]

Islam is far from just...even by the faulty democratic point of view.

That's the opinion you hold and you have your reasons. But I disagree because I have my reasons.

What science does according to me is it explains how the painting is made, what colors are use, and what strokes are made. What it does not explain according to me is that who is holding the paint brush?

First, establish that someone must hold a paintbrush and that the paint couldn't be there by some other means.
Don't jump to conclusions...

[Godlesspanther]

Islam is far from just...even by the faulty democratic point of view.

That's the opinion you hold and you have your reasons. But I disagree because I have my reasons.

What science does according to me is it explains how the painting is made, what colors are use, and what strokes are made. What it does not explain according to me is that who is holding the paint brush?

Bad analogy. There have been many fraudulent paintings -- countless examples over the years -- in which someone created a forged painting said to be of an old master.

Inevitably they get busted eventually. How? Science has demonstrated that it was actually not Van Gogh (for example) who was holding the brush.

[Subhan Ahmad]

That's the opinion you hold and you have your reasons. But I disagree because I have my reasons.

What science does according to me is it explains how the painting is made, what colors are use, and what strokes are made. What it does not explain according to me is that who is holding the paint brush?

First, establish that someone must hold a paintbrush and that the paint couldn't be there by some other means.
Don't jump to conclusions...

You bring a device simple as nokia 3310 that created itself from anywhere in the universe. I give you my word no more God I will ever talk about.

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@Godlesspanther, right analogy. There was always a hand involved. Even for a forgery.

[The Valkyrie]

First, establish that someone must hold a paintbrush and that the paint couldn't be there by some other means.
Don't jump to conclusions...

You bring a device simple as nokia 3310 that created itself from anywhere in the universe. I give you my word no more God I will ever talk about.

---

@Godlesspanther, right analogy. There was always a hand involved. Even for a forgery.

Comparing a biological process with non biological material is nonsense.