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RE: what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our morality?
May 12, 2014 at 8:21 am
It's simple: if god's moral commandments are actually based on reality and the welfare of the people in it, then those benefits can be discerned without needing a god to tell you them. If god's moral commandments aren't based on reality then they're just the opinions of god and, whether you worship him or not, there's simply no reason for them not to be another way; under that scheme, murder is qualitatively just as moral as anything else.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our morality?
May 12, 2014 at 9:18 am
Just say your morals come from a magic invisible unicorn. They will probably think that this is stupid, completely missing the point.
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RE: what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our...
May 12, 2014 at 11:20 am
(May 11, 2014 at 9:39 pm)leodeo Wrote: - so what do we say again for that?
The Golden Rule, it's much older than Christianity.
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
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RE: what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our morality?
May 12, 2014 at 11:26 am
Also, when Christians say there is no morality without god, let them know that you understand that to mean that they would be raping you right now if god wasn't looking.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our morality?
May 12, 2014 at 11:51 am
(May 12, 2014 at 8:21 am)Esquilax Wrote: It's simple: if god's moral commandments are actually based on reality and the welfare of the people in it, then those benefits can be discerned without needing a god to tell you them. If god's moral commandments aren't based on reality then they're just the opinions of god and, whether you worship him or not, there's simply no reason for them not to be another way; under that scheme, murder is qualitatively just as moral as anything else.
Euthyphro is hard to refute.
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RE: what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our morality?
May 12, 2014 at 1:33 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2014 at 2:13 pm by Aisha.)
I don't think we are not supposed to say anything to that. It is stupid in the first place to assume that people without religion have no feelings/morals.
I think anyone who needs a holy book to tell them what is right or wrong has a big problem, and I would very much doubt their abilities.
For example:
1, I kick a child
2,I can see the child is in pain
3, I understand this sucks for the child and I was not right inflict pain on him.
Now, I do not actually have to kick a child to understand it is painful. Nor do I have to scream at gay people, or steal from a shop, or cheat on my boyfriend.
I don't have to do these things because I understand what this does for another person. It is called empathy.
And then there is also the matter of (religious) culture. Where I am from it is perfectly fine to walk around in a short skirt, it is not immoral. In some places it is though.
They find it immoral to wear a short skirt, whilst I cant see a problem no matter how I look at it.
I often find that people who live in these particular places with these particular rules do not have morality, because they do so much bad stuff out of so called morals.
So anyway, if people ask where we get our morality from, I would just say "common sense".
If I felt the need to reply to such a silly question at all.
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RE: what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our morality?
May 12, 2014 at 1:36 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2014 at 1:39 pm by Anomalocaris.)
How about this:
I get my morality from the same place where God got his - from the experience, judgement, desires, tradeoff analysis and ulterior motives of humans.
But since I am a better human than those from whom god got his morality, my morality is obviously superior to god's morality.
Also, since my morality came straight to me from me, rather than through a untrustworthy diety who flaked out on actual existence, my morality is also much more pure and unadulterated.
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RE: what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our morality?
May 12, 2014 at 2:39 pm
Kick him in the balls and reply "You may be on to something".
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RE: what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our morality?
May 12, 2014 at 2:50 pm
(May 11, 2014 at 9:53 pm)leodeo Wrote: god i wish i thought of that earlier, i always think of the best things to say AFTER the conversation it pisses me off! That's one of the ways that we learn. See it for the learning experience that it is.
As for morals and behavior, what kind of person are you? Are you an irresponsible and unlikable person who lies, cheats, and steals? Do you have a lousy reputation among your peers and those who know you? Are your peers afraid to be anywhere near you for fear that they will be beaten, robbed, raped, or killed? Or would they characterize you as a moral person?
If you're what they'd consider a moral person, then they're brave to ask where you get your morals from. Because if you didn't get it from their favorite book of fairy tales, then that might indicate that people don't need a book of fairy tales to teach them to behave a certain way. And then they might start to wonder why they're getting their morals from a book of fairy tales.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
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what are we supposed to say again when christians ask us where we get our mor...
May 12, 2014 at 4:07 pm
(This post was last modified: May 12, 2014 at 4:08 pm by Rampant.A.I..)
The Christian tradition gives a "get out of jail free" card to anyone who "says they're really sorry" to Jesus, and Jesus will just pat you on the back and shrug, and open up the pearly gates of Heaven.
If a brother decides he wants to rape his sister repeatedly for years on end, and doesn't see the point of making an apology later, because he's suffered no consequences and "got over it" years ago, it doesn't matter if the sister still wakes up screaming two decades later, it's ok, because Jesus forgave them, they will never see any consequences because the victim is protecting the family (as often happens) by not "upsetting anyone" should the information come to light, because of this horse-shit Christian tradition about "forgiveness" and the make-believe contradictory idea of divine judgement.
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