Abraham, Isaac, and a Dead Toddler

[KichigaiNeko]

What, precisely, are the beliefs that would lead a non-believer to commit atrocities?

No absolute morality, anything goes in a Godless life.

GC

I reiterate my dear
You have nothing to offer, go back to your furniture.

[LostLocke]

No absolute morality, anything goes in a Godless life.

To paraphrase someone else....

You're right. There is no "ultimate" that is stopping me from murdering and raping all I want.
It just so happens that the amount of murdering and raping I want to do is zero.

[Mystical]

Whooo boy GC you're on a roll!

You're right, in this world --the one you and I both live in-- anything goes. On god, you can't kill. But why was that rule made in the first
place? Because in a society consisting of 2 or more individuals, each and every one of us are equal and have existential rights.
I have no more a right to kill you than you do me (unless I'm a Canaanite in biblical times, in which case your god said you could so it's all right, right?).

How can you not see that? The justice system sees reality this way. The socially implemented justice system has concluded that murdering
is not only wrong--it's punishable within the confines of our society. If you lost your faith today-- you still couldn't go killin, and I suspect you
wouldn't. Because there's more reasons than "god said I'm going to hell", for a sane individual not to murder another individual.

[Godscreated]

People have screwed this world up because they have misused their free will and I think it's only just that man suffer for what he does through his free will.

but if the OT isn't good enough for you how about when he sent his son/self to earth in a human meat-wrapper, healed the sick, and rose the bloody dead?!

Stop using the free-will argument GC, it's fucking tired bullshit.

One of the things that Jesus did in the OT was save a woman from being punished for her mistake.

Jesus intent was not saving the woman's physical life, He was bringing lessons to all who were there.
The men were asked to find her guilty if they themselves were not guilty, Jesus was trying to get them to understand that only the guiltless could judge and condemn this moral action.
This woman knew who Jesus was, she saw the forgiveness from the true Judge, and the instruction from forgiveness to sin no more. Jesus concern was her soul. He did not condone her actions and we know this because He instructed her to sin no more.

John 8

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Let's say that the woman used her free will to commit adultery even though she knew what the barbaric penalty for being caught was at the time. We're supposed to believe that Jesus was God incarnate, so here is God intervening to save the woman from suffering through misusing her free will.

What makes it really confusing is that so many Christians believe that God miraculously intervenes to save some people.

She did use her free will, no one was forcing her to commit adultery and being Jewish she knew the penalty. Jesus didn't intervene, that suggest He stepped in without being asked, the scribes and Pharisees were trying to cause Him to do something they could condemn, He turned their actions upon them. Like I said Jesus concern was for this woman's soul, not so much for her physical life, this is a mistake many non believers make about God's true concern.
God does intervene to save some people, some are part of His ultimate will others are through grace and yet others for reasons only God knows.

---

Really isn't real. Christians cant say where any of us go in the end,

When you die, you do not ask where and you do not ask when. These questions are not applicable, and I'll explain:

When your computer breaks down, where does it go? To the garbage. Why is it that, when you ask where people go when they die, that cemetery is not a sufficient answer? Because the question refers to the physical body.

Tell me sister, did you ever work with Windows before? What is Windows? It's an operating system right, it's a connection. I throw the computer out, where does Windows go? You see why that doesn't apply? Because the second you buy another computer, you can run windows on it again.

What you have to realize is that us humans are connections, like windows. When the computer dies, Windows doesn't die. Humans though...are very concerned that they will lose the memory and the favorite websites in their internet explorer. They fear that a lot.

How about that an atheist saying man has a soul, nice comparison with Windows.

GC

---

And this is your xtian love G-C?

Go back to your furniture my dear. You have nothing to offer

I'm not the one using all the vile language, nor derogatory comments.

GC

---

No absolute morality, anything goes in a Godless life.

To paraphrase someone else....

You're right. There is no "ultimate" that is stopping me from murdering and raping all I want.
It just so happens that the amount of murdering and raping I want to do is zero.

To this point in your life, what will tomorrow bring.

GC

[Confused Ape]

She did use her free will, no one was forcing her to commit adultery and being Jewish she knew the penalty. Jesus didn't intervene, that suggest He stepped in without being asked, the scribes and Pharisees were trying to cause Him to do something they could condemn, He turned their actions upon them.

So he did it to save himself because he wasn't ready to be crucified yet?

God does intervene to save some people, some are part of His ultimate will others are through grace and yet others for reasons only God knows.

What a wonderful way of avoiding the problem of God saving one child while allowing millions of other children to die of starvation, wars and disease. Then there's the other problem of why he saves some atheists.

Rebecca Vitsmun, Atheist Oklahoma Tornado Survivor, Sees Thousands In Indiegogo Campaign Donations

After a vicious tornado ripped through her Moore, Okla. home on Tuesday, Rebecca Vitsmun was lucky to be alive.

In a Tuesday interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, Vitsmun was asked if she was thanking "the Lord" for deciding to escape home with her 19-month-old son. She hesitated for a moment, before telling Blitzer that she was actually an atheist.

People of all religions have survived things against all odds. If God saves Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and NeoPagans etc. for mysterious reasons of his own it suggests that he isn't fussy about someone'e religion or lack of it. After all, a Hindu who thinks he/she lived through divine intervention will thank a Hindu deity, not the Christian God.

[Bob Kelso]

---

In those instances what would you call it? I'd say killing people takes away their goddamned free will. You stupid fuck.


Crazy? It's crazy to think that a just god should intervene on behalf of a defenseless child? Go fuck yourself you vile piece of shit.


My mind is made up in that hypothetical situation. You just disagree with it.


I see you're sticking with the same old shtick you stupid, smug little fuck. You know nothing of me, nor how I was raised.

---

Seems you're doing a good job of displaying how you were raised, need I say more.

GC

What? That I don't put up with bile-inducing little fucks like you claiming moral authority, and that I use adult language to show my irritation? Yeah, guess you got me there GC.

---

To paraphrase someone else....

You're right. There is no "ultimate" that is stopping me from murdering and raping all I want.
It just so happens that the amount of murdering and raping I want to do is zero.

To this point in your life, what will tomorrow bring.

GC

Case in point, you're a disgusting little man.

[LostLocke]

To paraphrase someone else....

You're right. There is no "ultimate" that is stopping me from murdering and raping all I want.
It just so happens that the amount of murdering and raping I want to do is zero.

To this point in your life, what will tomorrow bring.

Barring physical damage to my brain or a sudden chemical imbalance, there's no reason to think it won't be more of the same.

[Godscreated]

She did use her free will, no one was forcing her to commit adultery and being Jewish she knew the penalty. Jesus didn't intervene, that suggest He stepped in without being asked, the scribes and Pharisees were trying to cause Him to do something they could condemn, He turned their actions upon them.

So he did it to save himself because he wasn't ready to be crucified yet?

I'm not sure why you said that, like I said Jesus used the moment to teach everyone there.

God does intervene to save some people, some are part of His ultimate will others are through grace and yet others for reasons only God knows.

What a wonderful way of avoiding the problem of God saving one child while allowing millions of other children to die of starvation, wars and disease. Then there's the other problem of why he saves some atheists.

Like I keep saying why should God pull man out of every problem man has created. God put you, me and all others here to help others in these problems. So my question to you is this, the world produces enough food to feed the world, so why are there people starving, and not just in poor countries but in countries like the U.S.
God saves some atheist because He has a use for them, yep that's right, like it or not the sovereign God uses those He desires.

Rebecca Vitsmun, Atheist Oklahoma Tornado Survivor, Sees Thousands In Indiegogo Campaign Donations

After a vicious tornado ripped through her Moore, Okla. home on Tuesday, Rebecca Vitsmun was lucky to be alive.

In a Tuesday interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, Vitsmun was asked if she was thanking "the Lord" for deciding to escape home with her 19-month-old son. She hesitated for a moment, before telling Blitzer that she was actually an atheist.

People of all religions have survived things against all odds. If God saves Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists and NeoPagans etc. for mysterious reasons of his own it suggests that he isn't fussy about someone'e religion or lack of it. After all, a Hindu who thinks he/she lived through divine intervention will thank a Hindu deity, not the Christian God.

God understands the lives of each person and knows what their need is even before it arises, could be He saves a Hindu so that Hindu some day may help a Christian in need. God at work my friend.

GC

---

To this point in your life, what will tomorrow bring.

Barring physical damage to my brain or a sudden chemical imbalance, there's no reason to think it won't be more of the same.

That's what I was saying.

GC

---

Whooo boy GC you're on a roll!

You're right, in this world --the one you and I both live in-- anything goes. On god, you can't kill. But why was that rule made in the first
place? Because in a society consisting of 2 or more individuals, each and every one of us are equal and have existential rights.
I have no more a right to kill you than you do me (unless I'm a Canaanite in biblical times, in which case your god said you could so it's all right, right?).

I'm not Jewish.

How can you not see that? The justice system sees reality this way. The socially implemented justice system has concluded that murdering
is not only wrong--it's punishable within the confines of our society. If you lost your faith today-- you still couldn't go killin, and I suspect you
wouldn't. Because there's more reasons than "god said I'm going to hell", for a sane individual not to murder another individual.

Why do you not murder, because you do not want to or because you're afraid of the punishment the law would implement. I do not to please God, I have a terrible temper, I do not believe I could kill anyone then who knows, with God in my life that temper has been subdued. The thing about my temper, after coming to know God for a few years I realized that my temper did not flair up any more, I was amazed to say the least.

GC

[The Valkyrie]

What, precisely, are the beliefs that would lead a non-believer to commit atrocities?

No absolute morality, anything goes in a Godless life.

GC

So, now you're lying.

The Christian version of morality seems to be highly fluid, from those who think they can do things because their interpretation of their vague book says they can, to those who pick and choose which rules apply to them, to those who think their god told them they can do things, to those who bend over backwards to justify the "actions" of their god in the OT.

Honestly, if I were an all-good, all knowing deity I'd do what I could to clean up my image when my fanclub starts doing evil things in my name.

Of course, many fall back on the old, "god works in mysterious ways" cliche, which we all know is a copout. It's seems the "moving in mysterious ways" equates to not moving at all.



RJA

[Cyberman]

God understands the lives of each person and knows what their need is even before it arises, could be He saves a Hindu so that Hindu some day may help a Christian in need. God at work my friend.

What a typically arrogant and fatuous statement.