Abraham, Isaac, and a Dead Toddler

[Bob Kelso]

*puts on rage hat*

I said I don't want to hear the free-will argument because it's fucking ridiculous, your god has shit all over free-will according to your Bible.

What, your god decided to ignore free-will when he rained a fucking firestorm upon Sodom and Gomorrah, or when he killed every firstborn child of Egypt, or the time he drowned the entire goddamned planet, but if the OT isn't good enough for you how about when he sent his son/self to earth in a human meat-wrapper, healed the sick, and rose the bloody dead?!

Stop using the free-will argument GC, it's fucking tired bullshit.

*drops rage hat*

You site a few times God intervenes in this world and you believe He's taken away free will.

In those instances what would you call it? I'd say killing people takes away their goddamned free will. You stupid fuck.

Your the crazy one who said God should intervene in the free will of man in order to straighten up man's mess.

Crazy? It's crazy to think that a just god should intervene on behalf of a defenseless child? Go fuck yourself you vile piece of shit.

You little one need to make up your mind what you think God should do.

My mind is made up in that hypothetical situation. You just disagree with it.

You know I think your that little child who wants it's cake and eat it too. Bet your mom spoiled you until you had no hope but to be a brat who has to have his way, demanding that I not use the free will we have in a discussion, like I said pop to another thread if you don't want to hear about free will.

GC

I see you're sticking with the same old shtick you stupid, smug little fuck. You know nothing of me, nor how I was raised.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

I wasn't saying that at all. I'm commenting on the theist views expressed in this thread, in that the children who were murdered/attempted murdered were somehow little more than pawns in the decisions of the woman who made the attempts on their lives. There's a parallel in your big book of multiple choice actually, when all the firstborn of Egypt were of no more consequence than collateral in the pissing contest between the Pharoah and the god-powered Moses. So I ask again, what price the free will of the children in the OP's article? What lesson could that little girl possibly learn? In other words, was their sole purpose in being born and living as they did nothing more than to exist as extras in some moral lesson for the woman who tried to kill them? Because if that is so, and this god of yours (or any god) truly is standing in the wings watching and allowing it all, then fuck your god, fuck its sick lessons and - if you consider it good and worthy of worship - fuck you too.

Isn't that one one the purposes of religion, to put a positive spin on bad stuff? It helps people to cope when they experience severe mental pain. If everyone flew off the handle when such things happen chances are humans would have killed themselves off a long time ago. So when people say that it was some god's will that a bad thing happened it acts as a calming influence and absolves them from the need to go ape shit crazy on the actual perp.

[Tonus]

So what you're saying is that if there is a God then nothing should go wrong in the world? If there is a God should we be allowed to make our own decisions?

If there is a heaven, will humans who go there be allowed to make their own decisions?

[Cyberman]

We ignore daily, the fact that you need mental help GC. Its not our responsibility if your beliefs lead you to commit an atrocity.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you.

GC

What, precisely, are the beliefs that would lead a non-believer to commit atrocities?

[Confused Ape]

People have screwed this world up because they have misused their free will and I think it's only just that man suffer for what he does through his free will.

but if the OT isn't good enough for you how about when he sent his son/self to earth in a human meat-wrapper, healed the sick, and rose the bloody dead?!

Stop using the free-will argument GC, it's fucking tired bullshit.

One of the things that Jesus did in the OT was save a woman from being punished for her mistake.

John 8

3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Let's say that the woman used her free will to commit adultery even though she knew what the barbaric penalty for being caught was at the time. We're supposed to believe that Jesus was God incarnate, so here is God intervening to save the woman from suffering through misusing her free will.

What makes it really confusing is that so many Christians believe that God miraculously intervenes to save some people. Read the comments at the end of this article for examples.

Abuja Bomb Blast: Miracle Baby Found Alive Among Several Dead Victims(Pic) - Politics - Nairaland

[Mystical]

I wasn't saying that at all. I'm commenting on the theist views expressed in this thread, in that the children who were murdered/attempted murdered were somehow little more than pawns in the decisions of the woman who made the attempts on their lives. There's a parallel in your big book of multiple choice actually, when all the firstborn of Egypt were of no more consequence than collateral in the pissing contest between the Pharoah and the god-powered Moses. So I ask again, what price the free will of the children in the OP's article? What lesson could that little girl possibly learn? In other words, was their sole purpose in being born and living as they did nothing more than to exist as extras in some moral lesson for the woman who tried to kill them? Because if that is so, and this god of yours (or any god) truly is standing in the wings watching and allowing it all, then fuck your god, fuck its sick lessons and - if you consider it good and worthy of worship - fuck you too.

Isn't that one one the purposes of religion, to put a positive spin on bad stuff? It helps people to cope when they experience severe mental pain. If everyone flew off the handle when such things happen chances are humans would have killed themselves off a long time ago. So when people say that it was some god's will that a bad thing happened it acts as a calming influence and absolves them from the need to go ape shit crazy on the actual perp.

Yes, I was talking to my creationist cousin whom we are on good talking terms together. He said he'd rather shoot himself in the face than to find out there is no god. I believe him. Its like watching an addict. He'd rather die than even think such a thing as god not existing.
That would mean his future family isn't safe from the natural harm we all live in threat of 24/7!
Or that ultimate justice?
Really isn't real. Christians cant say where any of us go in the end, and that would mean they'd have to stop judging me and treating me like the equal I know we are. Equal.

Gods non existence would mean that for my cousin, all of us get lucky or unlucky on our own and we don't have to wait around for god to fix everything so we can actually LIKE our lives. he'd have to admit to himself that no, in fact, devils are not responsible for peoples misfortunes and misconduct. We are. We are responsible for what we do or don't do.
God is not only a scapegoat, but people allow him to be.

GC.
Keep in mind that there are people around this thread who have some epic qualms with what happens to these children and any future child subject to this torture. As far as I can gather, you're here an an theist forum to manage the fallout of your religion.

If this is how you Christians respond to these events --by dropping all responsibility out the window-- then I sure as hell don't want to know you or your god and you better believe that the Penal system will take care of them.
The same penal system that is overrun with criminals as a direct result of your reality overlapping Reality.

[Ksa]

Really isn't real. Christians cant say where any of us go in the end,

When you die, you do not ask where and you do not ask when. These questions are not applicable, and I'll explain:

When your computer breaks down, where does it go? To the garbage. Why is it that, when you ask where people go when they die, that cemetery is not a sufficient answer? Because the question refers to the physical body.

Tell me sister, did you ever work with Windows before? What is Windows? It's an operating system right, it's a connection. I throw the computer out, where does Windows go? You see why that doesn't apply? Because the second you buy another computer, you can run windows on it again.

What you have to realize is that us humans are connections, like windows. When the computer dies, Windows doesn't die. Humans though...are very concerned that they will lose the memory and the favorite websites in their internet explorer. They fear that a lot.

[Godscreated]

---

You site a few times God intervenes in this world and you believe He's taken away free will.

In those instances what would you call it? I'd say killing people takes away their goddamned free will. You stupid fuck.

Your the crazy one who said God should intervene in the free will of man in order to straighten up man's mess.

Crazy? It's crazy to think that a just god should intervene on behalf of a defenseless child? Go fuck yourself you vile piece of shit.

You little one need to make up your mind what you think God should do.

My mind is made up in that hypothetical situation. You just disagree with it.

You know I think your that little child who wants it's cake and eat it too. Bet your mom spoiled you until you had no hope but to be a brat who has to have his way, demanding that I not use the free will we have in a discussion, like I said pop to another thread if you don't want to hear about free will.

GC

I see you're sticking with the same old shtick you stupid, smug little fuck. You know nothing of me, nor how I was raised.

---

Seems you're doing a good job of displaying how you were raised, need I say more.

GC

[KichigaiNeko]

And this is your xtian love G-C?

Go back to your furniture my dear. You have nothing to offer

[Godscreated]

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you.

GC

What, precisely, are the beliefs that would lead a non-believer to commit atrocities?

No absolute morality, anything goes in a Godless life.

GC