Why knocking is so important.

[Drich]

[quote='Drich' pid='736808' dateline='1408886157']i picked col sanders as an example for two reasons. Fat and faithless avatar is of col with a different head, and because he has been dead long enough that most of us were not alive when he was.

So what? Abraham Lincoln has been dead longer, and while I've seen the Colonel in real life, I have never seen Abraham Lincoln.

Maybe read what I wrote again in its entirety, THEN respond.

If you wish to argue that he isn't a historical personage because no one alive has seen him, have at it. It shows your inability to grasp the point about evidence.

Yes, yes that is exactly what I was doing...

You should be very careful with this line of argumentation, because here's my knight's fork: you must either claim that your Jesus is fictional because no one has seen him, or that Colonel Sanders's existence is only a matter of faith.

Put another way, I've got a shitload of evidence for Colonel Sanders, and you have none -- zero -- for Jesus as Son of God.

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Again Jesus is the most documented person of that time period. So no I do not have to admit either. I simply pick up your fork and discard it as it is a straw man built on fault information.

I find what you claim as "evidence" to be laughably incomplete and unpersuasive. I'm looking for stuff not referencing the Bible, and not requiring a priori faith.

In short: real evidence, not this playacting.

see what was written to pro carrots.

No, you're doing this so you can puff your own chest up, else you wouldn't take such an arrogant and sometime insulting tone.

project much?

So why are you here, and have you read any of your own work?

I have said many times I take great effort to mirror the tome and timber of your own efforts (whom ever I am speaking.) while I do take some satasfication in cutting bullies down to size, and beating them with their own words, fail logic better yet a broken Sunday school understanding of Christianity when they try and force any of it on me. I do not enjoy take happiness from it. I've been a member of this site for a while and have even made some friends/have respect for may of the long time members here. (Just about everyone except Minnie.) even so if he were on fire I WOULD Pee on him to put him out

Also, comparing yourself to Paul is another sign of overweening egotism.

-or it could simply be scoring biblical precedent for my behavior. It does bother me one way or another for you to think either or.

There's a message there, but your interpretation is wrong.

You can understand the message, if you ponder it long enough. If it doesn't come right away, be patient, and don't give up; I am making it opaque in order to weed out the weak.

I'll give you a sign when you get it.

Have a good day.

So.... Chinese girl awestruck by what I said?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Again Jesus is the most documented person of that time period. So no I do not have to admit either. I simply pick up your fork and discard it as it is a straw man built on fault information.

He was documented by people who hadn't seen him. There is no evidence he existed as the living Son of God. There is no evidence of a zombie raid when he was resurrected. There is no evidence the Romans (scrupulous record-keepers) strung him up.

The only documentation starts decades after his death. It lacks photos. It lacks any evidence of veracity other than, "I said so." And that ain't good enough for me. If that's good enough for you, cool. I've got a bridge you might be interested in ...

project much?

So why are you here, and have you read any of your own work?

What evidence would you like for my position that I am faithless? I have no faith, and I demand evidence. If you cannot provide it, that isn't my problem.

I have said many times I take great effort to mirror the tome and timber of your own efforts (whom ever I am speaking.) while I do take some satasfication in cutting bullies down to size, and beating them with their own words, fail logic better yet a broken Sunday school understanding of Christianity when they try and force any of it on me.

Lol, you criticizing anyone's understanding of Christianity is laughable. You cannot even see your own internal contradictions.

Also, if I wanted to bully you, I would. I'm not doing so here; I'm asking hard questions. That's not bullying, that's simple demanding evidence, and not bullshit.

Don't like it? Tough tits, kid. Up your message. If you're the best messenger your god can scrounge up, he must be scraping bottom of the barrel.

Also, comparing yourself to Paul is another sign of overweening egotism.

-or it could simply be scoring biblical precedent for my behavior. It does bother me one way or another for you to think either or.

I wanted this point to get more airtime.

There's a message there, but your interpretation is wrong.

You can understand the message, if you ponder it long enough. If it doesn't come right away, be patient, and don't give up; I am making it opaque in order to weed out the weak.

I'll give you a sign when you get it.

Have a good day.

So.... Chinese girl awestruck by what I said?

Wrong again. Keep trying, young Padawan.

Or go to Hell. Your choice.

[Ravenshire]

Drich, you are so full of shit. As hard as you spin I'm surprised you can still type.

What you call spinning, I have labeled as an opening post. This is my message from the beginning. It's been 44 pages and you finally get it, but rather than admit you just now got what I have been talking about from post number one of this thread. you make it out like I am the one who is back peddling, and trying to save face with why your faith failed explaination. If this explaination was indeed in my initial post, and you are just flat wrong... and can not admit it even when there is undeniable evidence. You should be asking yourself what else are you wrong about and can not admit it to yourself?

I finally get what?!? That you're a pious asshole? Got that a long time ago. Yes, you are back-peddling. You keep moving the fucking goal-posts all over the fucking place. First we don't ask fervently enough. Then we don't seek long enough. And, of course, we don't knock loud enough. It's all our fault that your just and loving gawd ignored honest requests for signs. You even go so far as to say that I was put on the path to eternal damnation by your gawd because all the things I was doing (based entirely on your faulty assumptions) were wrong.
Your words, Drich:

I am saying that your atheism is apart of your prayer for proof. In that the version of God you initially had was flawed, or critically in error. So God sent the rains/Trials of life to wash away your faith, Just as He said would happen in the parable of the wise and foolish builders.

Your gawd sent "rains/Trials" that not only pushed me to atheism, but to unforgivable sin? Didn't your all-knowing, all-powerful sky-fairy know it was condemning me to hell even when I was fucking begging for a sign? Your gawd is none too bright, then.

As for your "explanations," they're worthless. You can explain nothing when you are working purely from assumption.

And you wonder why/how your house built on sand has crumbled.

No, I do not wonder why a house built on the sands of christer faith would fail.

You had a bad picture of God. One that was not redeemable in any way shape or form, so when tested your picture of God crumbled just as Christ said it would... Why does any of that supersize you? Are you so proud as to think that you were simply born into the right religion? That Sunday school really taught you everything there was to know about an infinite God? Really one hour aday, maybe two or three times a month?

You just don't fucking get it do you. I tried your bullshit. Your gawd failed utterly. I had a bad picture of gawd?!? You have no fucking idea what picture of gawd I held at the time. None, asshole.

There is no "right" religion dumbass. Except, of course, yours.
As for Sunday School, wouldn't know, never attended. Raised in a home that kept the sabbath as described in the buy-bull, evening Friday to evening Saturday.

Were you stalking me during my childhood to know when and how often I went to church?!? Or are you trying to imply that I'm a liar when I say I truly wanted a sign?

Are you beginning to see just how fucking stupid you look leaping to all these conclusions about people you've never met?

What in your life have you done to that level of dedication and been successful at? Not just good but answers to life's greatest questions good at? And you wonder why God will not support what you come to Him with? Would you give a kid a full ride scholarship to where ever he wanted to go if he maxed out with a 3rd grade education? Or would you make him come up to a given level first?

Just love the condescension dripping from that little bit. Jeez Drich, assume much? You have no fucking clue how much dedication I've ever put into anything in my life or how successful I've been (outside of your faulty assumptions). You don't know me. Quit speaking for me and especially down to me.

Whether you believe it or not, I sought gawd, in whatever form, as devoutly as any other christer. Your excuse that I had the wrong image of gawd is just that, an excuse. You have no idea what image I held or if it was right or wrong. You only have an assumption based on your own personal bullshit that it was wrong. You want to blame me for the failure, fine. I'll even go so far as to say you're right. I was to blame for wasting so much of my life chasing a fantasy. I doubt I'll ever buy into the bullshit that you're buying by the ton and my life will never be one bit less rich or full. In fact, I can honestly say that a life without religious fuck-nuttery has been far richer and more fulfilling than it ever was while I was trying so desperately to believe in that nonsense.

So, fuck you, fuck your false gawd, fuck it's alleged son, fuck the holey spook and fuck the horse that "rode" you all. You can respond if you wish, but you'll only be met with mockery from this point forward. You've proven it's all your "arguments" are worth.

[Goosebump]

He was documented by people who hadn't seen him. There is no evidence he existed...

Or go to Hell. Your choice.

I've read all of what you've said here. I may be thick, or dull witted. But I have not yet gotten an answer to my question that I could understand. If you want me to knock, I'm willing to make the attempt. But first I would ask with full meekness that you answer just one question.

Mr. Dritch,

I'm sorry if I persist on a matter you feel satisfied... Are the methods by you which you teach, instruct, the same as those used, employed, by Christ in the bible?

Again sorry for my misunderstanding. I only seek understanding from you.

[Tobie]

to say you have never received an invitation from God is a falsehood, as I have extended an invitation on His behalf to you in this very thread. Your participation in this thread is acknowledgment that you are aware of it.
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It is definitely not a falsehood. You may claim to speak for a god, but considering no-one has proven the existence of any god, it's highly unlikely that your claim is going to be true.

Authenticity of said invitation is another matter all together. One that only you and God can verify

Ever heard of Russell's teapot? It applies here. Since there is no evidence for any god, it is highly unlikely that the god in question can testify to the veracity of said invitation. As for the invitee, well anyone can make stuff up.

[pocaracas]

---

I'm sorry, I can't remember which medical problem it was, but I know that many diagnosises (what's the plural of diagnosis?? diagnoses?) are based on a statistical analysis. Something like 90% of patients suffer one fate, so that was your diagnosis. You landed on the 10%, lucky you!
No god required.

Messenger? the voice that told you to go to a specific diner lost in some small town and wait for something?

Let me guess, that small town was in the United States of America? Where so many people are christian.. something christianity-related was bound to come up and you had to dive right into someone else's business and tell them what they wanted to hear, huh?
No god required.

Or maybe not.
You were brought up in a christian society, were you not?
You could have come across that biblical description some time in your past and payed no mind, but it got stored and then your dream resurfaced that memory.
No god required.


And as I showed, it is possible that each event had elements of "in your head" and luck or statistical likelihood.... no god required in any of the cases.


To be there is kinda difficult... there's a whole ocean in between and I'm not exactly in a state where I can spend the amount of money and time required to go there.
But I'd like to hear about the others!

I can't tell you that those things happened this or that way, but I can provide you with a possible explanation where no god is required.
You can dismiss it, of course, or add further information for me to refine my possible explanation.

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What makes you think that any of the evidences I have received were for you to verify the existence of God?

These are the things I needed, they weren't for you. I shared them only to one end. To show you the the Holy Spirit will Taylor an experience that you need to establish and maintain your own relationship.

I have said over and over and over and over again, that God does not deal in absolute proofs. He gives just enough for one person to establish and maintain one belief. That means each of us has to approach God on our own. Otherwise if there were absolute proof, then the one choice we have been given in this life would then be gone.

[facepalm]
So you've dismissed any possible natural explanation and went with what you wanted.... what you were knocking and asking for, huh?

Even if there is no holy ghost whatsoever, you would have arrived at the same result.

See why that method is so dangerous? and so likely to be yield wrong results?
No... you delusion runs deep... you can't even consider the option of a natural explanation.

[Drich]

I've read all of what you've said here. I may be thick, or dull witted. But I have not yet gotten an answer to my question that I could understand. If you want me to knock, I'm willing to make the attempt. But first I would ask with full meekness that you answer just one question.

Mr. Dritch,

I'm sorry if I persist on a matter you feel satisfied... Are the methods by you which you teach, instruct, the same as those used, employed, by Christ in the bible?

Again sorry for my misunderstanding. I only seek understanding from you.

Taken from post 353:

I am simply confused as to the nature of your [s]question.[s/] "Statement" (Is what i meant.) You asked many questions in your first big post. all of which I took the time to answer. For, This one specific question I even provided you with biblical examples of the 'non christian' tactic being used by Christ.

Why did you ignore everything else said for something that I have already demonstrated?

:Edited for grammer

I have answered in the afrimitive 3 seperate time citing examples of Christ using the tactic I myself have used. How else can I answer this question if yes is my answer?

[Losty]

Somewhere between 1900 and 3500 years ago a unverifiable guy writes you a letter that the president will have dinner with you after you die. Are you not invited to dinner at the ghost White House?

[Drich]

He was documented by people who hadn't seen him. There is no evidence he existed as the living Son of God. There is no evidence of a zombie raid when he was resurrected. There is no evidence the Romans (scrupulous record-keepers) strung him up.

The only documentation starts decades after his death. It lacks photos. It lacks any evidence of veracity other than, "I said so." And that ain't good enough for me. If that's good enough for you, cool. I've got a bridge you might be interested in ...

Maybe go back and reread my assertions on the evidence of Jesus. Your persumptions and arguement against what I said is not accurate which what makes this whole first paragraph a strawman.

What evidence would you like for my position that I am faithless?

The truly faithless do not feel a need to defend their position. Those who do are typically perparing their judgement day defense strageity.

I have no faith, and I demand evidence. If you cannot provide it, that isn't my problem.

Is faith in evidence still not faith?

Is their a hole in the Ozone? do you have proof? now explain how this 'proof' and your belief in it does not completely depend on faith.

Lol, you criticizing anyone's understanding of Christianity is laughable. You cannot even see your own internal contradictions.

Then please oh wise and masterful one show me the errors of my ways so that all may join you and laugh at me..

Also, if I wanted to bully you,

You would pretend i said something then attack what you can easily defend without mercy. Oh, wait..

I would. I'm not doing so here; I'm asking hard questions. That's not bullying, that's simple demanding evidence, and not bullshit.

But that is not what you are doing. As i pointed out you created a strawman in your opening paragraph and attacked it. Rather than speak to what i had to say.

Don't like it? Tough tits, kid. Up your message. If you're the best messenger your god can scrounge up, he must be scraping bottom of the barrel.

Look sport nothing you have done here is new. You will eventually see that you are wrong, and have been from the beginning. The only question is will you admit it. The fact that your building straw men reather than address what i actually have to say.. my money is not.. You will be another pro carrots and chase your tail as long as i play along.

Wrong again. Keep trying, young Padawan.

Or go to Hell. Your choice.

Chinese/Jap[/quote] boy who likes to dress as a french maid who has been awestruck by what i said?

---

Somewhere between 1900 and 3500 years ago a unverifiable guy writes you a letter that the president will have dinner with you after you die. Are you not invited to dinner at the ghost White House?

Unverified by whom?

Again the point of A/S/K is for that verification we all need.

---

What makes you think that any of the evidences I have received were for you to verify the existence of God?

These are the things I needed, they weren't for you. I shared them only to one end. To show you the the Holy Spirit will Taylor an experience that you need to establish and maintain your own relationship.

I have said over and over and over and over again, that God does not deal in absolute proofs. He gives just enough for one person to establish and maintain one belief. That means each of us has to approach God on our own. Otherwise if there were absolute proof, then the one choice we have been given in this life would then be gone.

[facepalm]
So you've dismissed any possible natural explanation and went with what you wanted.... what you were knocking and asking for, huh?

Even if there is no holy ghost whatsoever, you would have arrived at the same result.

See why that method is so dangerous? and so likely to be yield wrong results?
No... you delusion runs deep... you can't even consider the option of a natural explanation.

Again what i wrote is not about me, it is about God giving you the oppertunity to be presented with exactly what you need to establish and maintain a relationship. The AIDs and Hell scare with the message I received put me on track. What keeps me there is something much much stronger.

I am but one example of the lengths God is willing to go for any of us. IF we simply meet Him on His terms.

---

to say you have never received an invitation from God is a falsehood, as I have extended an invitation on His behalf to you in this very thread. Your participation in this thread is acknowledgment that you are aware of it.
.

It is definitely not a falsehood. You may claim to speak for a god, but considering no-one has proven the existence of any god, it's highly unlikely that your claim is going to be true.

Authenticity of said invitation is another matter all together. One that only you and God can verify

Ever heard of Russell's teapot? It applies here. Since there is no evidence for any god, it is highly unlikely that the god in question can testify to the veracity of said invitation. As for the invitee, well anyone can make stuff up.

Again I am just a beggar trying to tell other beggars where to find food. You want proof? I ate it, but there is more if you just A/S/K for it.

[Losty]

I'm talking about real verification Drich. Voices in your head and feelings do not count.

But sure let's try it your way.

Somewhere between 1900 and 3500 years ago a legit guy writes you a letter that the president will have dinner with you after you die. Are you not invited to dinner at the ghost White House?