Helping the Afflicted

[Diablo]

Sometimes I think there is too much shit heaped on those unfortunate enough to be hooked on religion. It may not be their fault, since few choose it, and most are indoctrinated from a young age. I recall several phrases which sum up the problem:

- give me the boy and you can have the man
- give me a man for the first seven years and you can have the rest

I don't know who those sayings are attributed to, but they make the point that childhood indoctrination is very deep.

Now some people who post here have undeniably managed to throw off that brainwashing, and congratulations to them (I never had that problem, fortunately) but I doubt it was easy in all cases. The people who post here are probably educated and reasonably intelligent, maybe college graduates, well-travelled in some cases, and all those things would help.

Now consider people who are not very bright, badly educated, maybe semi-literate, and staying in the community in which they were brought up, surrounded by like-minded people. What chance do they have to realise that they were misled? They probably don't want to change their beliefs even if they could, which they don't.

The whole thing is comparable to drug addiction, with no fault attributable to the addict, and maybe it should be treated the same way. I think that atheists have a duty to reach out to the afflicted and try to help them, rather than pour scorn on them and call them idiots and bone-heads.

[Mudhammam]

In my journey from Christian to atheist I think it took a mixture of scorn and gentle re-education to shake me out of my dogmatic slumbers.

[Michael]

Diablo. Those sayings come from the Jesuits.

Just to fill out your trivia knowledge :-)

[Diablo]

Diablo. Those sayings come from the Jesuits.

Just to fill out your trivia knowledge :-)

So they admitted they knew what they were doing? That kind of makes it worse. And it's hardly trivia.

Note: Edited.

[Minimalist]

- give me the boy and you can have the man

The motto of priests everywhere, it seems.

[Diablo]

- give me the boy and you can have the man

The motto of priests everywhere, it seems.

I was waiting for that. In fact I nearly out a similar comment in my post.

[Jenny A]

Diablo. Those sayings come from the Jesuits.

Just to fill out your trivia knowledge :-)

He may not know, but I did. And I guess that is the point. There are exceptions, I think you are one, but most Christians are merely indoctrinated from a young age. It is the method of all churches. Consequently belief is not something most believers have thought critically about.

Critical thinking is dismissed. I know this personally having first expressed doubts in my teens. It's adolescence, everyone doubts in their teens, but you'll know better later is the line. That I'd never believed at all is not something they were able to hear. It was like speaking to a wall.

[Michael]

I think it's much more complex than that, Jenny. The Jesuits were/are often the intellectual elite. They are not at all lacking critical thinking skills. They lay a very firm foundation of philosophy before even talking about theology. It takes about eight years of university level education to make a Jesuit. Though originally they were the intellectual elite that drove the counter reformation, today they are known for challenging the Church. Both they and their universities (like Notra Dame, who upset traditionalists by inviting Obama to speak) are catalysts for change in the Catholic Church - they are now generally driving the liberal wing of the Church. They were also behind 'liberation theology' which again upset the traditionalists who considered it Marxism by the back door. They became so powerful they were once banned by the Vatican and only survived by protection in Tsarist Russia. These elite believe very much in education, but of course they have their own ideas of what makes the best education (don't we all?). Essential to them is teaching people to think well, and to then try to attract the best thinkers to themselves. But, yes, they know the power of the earliest years of education.

Pope Francis is a Jesuit (just to throw in some more trivia).

P.S. And one of my favourite Jesuits, a staunch defender of science .... http://jesuits.org/news-detail?TN=NEWS-20140714111304

[Eel_LahjicK]

I think about what you're saying here a lot. I feel really bad for them. Even though I'm not a big fan of religion, I could play devil's advocate and say, "If the religion helps them by bringing hope and joy to their daily lives, then let them be happy." Even still, I'd stick to my true belief and say, "Indoctrination is evil because it is forced, and has much wicked, fear-based dogma in it." So, to me and many others to which you were pointing out, I empathize greatly. People do grow up and begin to question things, but they're in a family who "knows" their religion to be true. You can't speak out in a lot of cases, including mine, because people in your family will never look at you the same again, or they may actually dislike and alienate you. As the popular saying goes, which I'll rearrange to my liking, "Religion deludes people, divides people, and controls people."