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RE: Rant against anti-atheist agnostics.
September 23, 2014 at 1:24 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2014 at 1:27 pm by Michael B.)
Fair enough. But it seems to me you just are just meeting aggression with aggression, Rhythm. And that was exactly the cycle of violence that Jesus willingly and voluntarily stood in the middle of, replacing counter-aggression with peace, sacrifice and blessing.
But I don't expect us to have a common view on this, so I shall leave it there and indeed wish you peace +
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RE: Rant against anti-atheist agnostics.
September 23, 2014 at 1:26 pm
As long as I hide my money-changing equipment~
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Rant against anti-atheist agnostics.
September 23, 2014 at 1:28 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2014 at 1:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I am, and I don't have a problem with that. If jesus intention or message was to break the cycle - enshrining it in faith as a "gift" from on high - would seem to be a poor way to go about doing that.
If christianity was the belief that jesus (or anyone) should not have been crucified (and especially so for the "sin" of another) and that no one should wish for such a gift - and would oppose those who do and those who offer it..........that this is a viscious cycle that needed to be broken......I might be banging my head against a pew right now. But it isn't, so I'm not.
I don't want your peace....you've been explaining your peace to me in this thread, and that's precisely what I take issue with.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Rant against anti-atheist agnostics.
September 23, 2014 at 2:28 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2014 at 2:29 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(September 23, 2014 at 1:10 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Hence my anti-theism. I stand with those who would stand with me in defense of each other, and I stand against those who would side with authority or the mob in their aggression against -any- of us. Given your stance as an anti-theist, how can you be so certain that you wouldn't be someone in the mob or an authority defending the population from what you have considered a dangerous religious zealot?
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RE: Rant against anti-atheist agnostics.
September 23, 2014 at 2:32 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2014 at 2:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
If you ever find me in that situation, please remind me of myself and feel free to hit me over the head with a brick. Imagining that I may someday betray some of my most closely held ideals (ignoring that I've already been given that opportunity and have shown my conviction) is what...exactly? Am I clubbing you for your beliefs? Am I proposing that you ought to be clubbed for your beliefs? Am I defending those that would club you for your beliefs? Am i describing how virtuous it would be to club you for your beliefs? Is defending someone from a religious zealot in some way laying -my- misdeeds on that zealot and clubbing him for them?
Now, juxtapose that against every description that any of you have offered of vicarious redemption and the nature of the crucifixion (and the flat out refusal to argue against those principles in fairly easy situations offered every other post).
IOW, go fuck yourselves with your pious garbage - and take the field leveling nonsense with you on the way out. I may one day become an immoral hypocrite, but today isn't that day, and meanwhile......
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Rant against anti-atheist agnostics.
September 23, 2014 at 5:26 pm
This sums up all my arguments with strict Agnostics.
![[Image: Agnosticism.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=cdn.eguiders.com%2Fuploads%2FAgnosticism.jpg)
If the hypothetical idea of an afterlife means more to you than the objectively true reality we all share, then you deserve no respect.
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RE: Rant against anti-atheist agnostics.
September 23, 2014 at 6:57 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2014 at 7:31 pm by Whateverist.)
The ones that gripe my ass are too ballsy. They are insufficiently agnostic.
I'm inclined to agree with Rhythm in this. I'd rather have him for a friend and a neighbor in the situations he describes. The idea of writing anyone off as a vehicle for the betterment of the many doesn't sit well.
Frankly my overwhelming reaction to this idea of vicarious redemption is that it is so primitive. I think of islanders tossing a virgin into the volcano with enthusiasm. Any interpretation of a wisdom story that turns the listener into a mere observer can't be right. Why tell the story at all if there is nothing to do but be grateful, admit your inadequacy and feel puny?
There is a sense in which it is sometimes wise to acquiesce. There is a sense in which it is sometimes wise to be open to wisdom greater than your own. But there is no wisdom in ever deciding to abdicate your agency for all time to a 'greater power'. If you are that powerless then you haven't the ability to correctly choose the bible or any other authority.
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RE: Rant against anti-atheist agnostics.
September 23, 2014 at 8:14 pm
Kind of makes you see those smiling faces coming out of churches in a whole new light, eh?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Rant against anti-atheist agnostics.
September 23, 2014 at 8:26 pm
Afraid so. Now can I un-see that?
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RE: Rant against anti-atheist agnostics.
September 23, 2014 at 8:39 pm
(September 20, 2014 at 4:40 pm)whateverist Wrote: Don't get me wrong, I'm agnostic too. Very much so in fact.
But 'militant' agnostics, like a certain new member whose user name cuts a little close to home, tick me off. Please tell me what it is you think you know about what these god-things are that makes you argue so vociferously against non-belief in them.
I get agnosticism. I don't get anti-atheism. What is that about? Personally I have no more trouble with agnostic theists than I do agnostic atheists. These are my peoples.
Anti-atheist agnostics, like their brethren atheist anti-theists, carry around huge axes to grind. Both talk proudly of reasoned argument and evidence. But both are obviously more animated by emotional bile than any reason they actually own up to. Both are obviously working through issues which cloud their judgment.
[/vent] I am "ant-theist" in the same way I am anti unicornist and anti flat earther. I am not anti human rights though.
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