Why I am so passionate about speaking out against feminism.

[Bad Wolf]

I think you took the right choice there buddy.

Still, not knowing is the hardest part. Was it malicious or was it just confusion and honesty? Those are the only two choices I can see.

[Little lunch]

Many years ago I had a room mate who was bringing a female friend over quite often.
Once or twice he gave her a lift home.
Out of the blue she puts a domestic violence order on him and accuses him of stalking her.
She claimed she never spent any time with him other then at university and had never told him where she lives.
I went to the police station to stick up for him and they didn't want to know about it.
We spent many a night wondering what was going through her head.
He was as bewildered as you and he never found out.
You just have to let it go.
For what it's worth, I believe you. :-)

[John V]

No, she doesn't seem to be a feminist leader, but she's empowered by the modern incarnation of feminism to see everything in society as victimizing her. The opposite side of that coin is that she's also empowered by feminism to see dudes as always victimizing. The victim mentality that I see within the movement is very strong and, yes, it hurts people. Hell, I have my own, personal experiences that can tell you how these attitudes can hurt people.

Again, when I hear of crazy behavior from a person with known mental illness who identifies as a feminist, I find it more reasonable to attribute the crazy behavior to the mental illnesses rather than the feminist beliefs.

Only in that it has to do with the influence they have on their followers. Claiming that the extremist feminist leaders had nothing to do with this would be kinda like claiming that Osama Bin Laden had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

So, at what point to these type of experiences become common enough that they're worthy of your attention? Or, at least, at what point do these kind of experiences become common enough that they aren't called "stereotypes based on isolated experiences?"

When they're coming from otherwise sane people and represent a majority of feminists I suppose.

In the business/professional world, there are a lot of "Women in [field]" groups. This is a type of feminism. These groups are usually pretty reasonable in their views. I don't think it's reasonable to judge feminism by the fringe types that make headlines.

She left Catholicism for Protestantism (before later on becoming an atheist), and part of it was because she objected to the Catholic church covering for pedo-priests. Instead of acknowledging that there was an issue there, the Catholics all took the defensive which led her to believe that either 1) they actually were guilty of things like that or 2) their alegiance towards peope who do things like that is more important to them than understanding her perspective. Either way, it's shit. And she's said the same thing has happened to her when she speaks out about the bad behavior she's also seen come from many self identified feminists, especially the ones over at Atheism+ and FreeThoughtBlogs.

Yes, the fringe may stick together and defend one another. No surprise there.

---

Ugh, whatever alpha, I'm glad you know exactly what other people believe without having to listen to them.

I have listened. It's clear that he is biased against feminism due to personal experiences. That he doesn't like that assessment and denies it does not cancel out all the things he said to the contrary.

[Bad Wolf]

I have listened.

You demonstrably haven't.

It's clear that he is biased against feminism due to personal experiences.

You brought the whole 'bias' thing in, all that I said was that I have a bad association with it. That is not the same as bias.

That he doesn't like that assessment and denies it does not cancel out all the things he said to the contrary.

It does when I've explained what I meant, but of course, you know what I'm thinking better than I do.

[TaraJo]

Again, when I hear of crazy behavior from a person with known mental illness who identifies as a feminist, I find it more reasonable to attribute the crazy behavior to the mental illnesses rather than the feminist beliefs.

And what do you attribute it to when people exhibit crazy behavior without a mental illness, but they're heavily indocrinated into a specific belief system? For example, when Andrea Dworkin claimed that all heterosexual sex is rape, what do you attribute that to? When a large group of feminists started a riot at the University of Tornoto to shut down a speaking event they didn't like, what do you attribute that to?

So, at what point to these type of experiences become common enough that they're worthy of your attention? Or, at least, at what point do these kind of experiences become common enough that they aren't called "stereotypes based on isolated experiences?"

When they're coming from otherwise sane people and represent a majority of feminists I suppose.

Without any consideration for my own, lived experiences? Shame on you. Seems to me you're ignoring my own experiences because they aren't the same as yours. Isn't that what you like to call mansplaining?

In the business/professional world, there are a lot of "Women in [field]" groups. This is a type of feminism. These groups are usually pretty reasonable in their views. I don't think it's reasonable to judge feminism by the fringe types that make headlines.

Yes, and, as I stated in my initial post in this thread, I can agree with that type of feminism. If you're encouraging women to get into these fields, you have my full support. If you're just chastising men for having privilege or calling everything rape, you can go to hell. I'm sick and tired of the victim based feminism and I loathe the way it's scaring women out of achieving our full potential.

[John V]

And what do you attribute it to when people exhibit crazy behavior without a mental illness, but they're heavily indocrinated into a specific belief system?

The belief system.

Without any consideration for my own, lived experiences? Shame on you.

Why would I elevate something beyond "isolated" based on one person's experience?

Seems to me you're ignoring my own experiences because they aren't the same as yours. Isn't that what you like to call mansplaining?

As I've never used the term, no, I don't like to call anything that.

Yes, and, as I stated in my initial post in this thread, I can agree with that type of feminism.

The question then is, which kind is more prevalent? I'd say this kind has more adherents but gets fewer headlines.

If you're encouraging women to get into these fields, you have my full support. If you're just chastising men for having privilege or calling everything rape, you can go to hell. I'm sick and tired of the victim based feminism and I loathe the way it's scaring women out of achieving our full potential.

Full potential like undressing for men on a webcam?

[TaraJo]

Yes, and, as I stated in my initial post in this thread, I can agree with that type of feminism.

The question then is, which kind is more prevalent? I'd say this kind has more adherents but gets fewer headlines.

If that's the case, my second objection is that the not-crazy feminists so rarely call out the ones who are crazy. That's just what I'm doing here. If you aren't one of the crazy ones and you aren't going to defend the crazy ones, I was never talking about you.

I guess the question I'd want to as you is why it's more important to you that you defend the title 'feminism' than acknowledge the issues I've had with self identified feminists?

Again, watch the video I posted. She specifically states that she is pro-choice, pro GLBT, pro gender equality and pro so many of the other things feminism is supposed to stand for. But she isn't crazy about calling herself a feminist because she's seen the title used to defend way too much bad behavior. That's how I feel.

[Zidneya]

Still, not knowing is the hardest part. Was it malicious or was it just confusion and honesty? Those are the only two choices I can see.

It doesn't matter. Either if it was malicious or confusion that won't change the fact that if she come back into your life she will do it again. Because think about it. If it was malicious she will do it again at the first chance and if it was confusion it will happen again at the first misunderstanding. You're better without her pal.

[TaraJo]

If your claim is that the great majority of not-crazy feminists shouldn't be judged by the words and actions of a loud minority of them, would it be fair to call out feminists who exercise the exact same behaviors? Why don't I ever see this shit being mentioned?

[Little lunch]

Are the M&Ms female or male?