Atheists only vote please: Do absolute MORAL truths exist? Is Rape ALWAYS "wrong"?

[Tsun Tsu]

If someone wants to be fucked it is not rape.

Yes... hence the word "rape" being used here to differentiate consensual from non consensual sex. To be forcibly raped. Is it universally true that it is wrong to rape?

[Jackalope]

If someone wants to be fucked it is not rape.

Yes... hence the word "rape" being used here to differentiate consensual from non consensual sex. To be forcibly raped. Is it universally true that it is wrong to rape?

Define the scope of "universally true". To humanity? To all known species? To all moral agents, known and unknown? Something else?

[Cato]

If someone wants to be fucked it is not rape.

Yes... hence the word "rape" being used here to differentiate consensual from non consensual sex. To be forcibly raped. Is it universally true that it is wrong to rape?

My comment was in reference to you considering a circumstance where rape was accepted. If it's accepted it's not rape.

[Simon Moon]

So the question... Does absolute universal moral truth exist? Is there ANYTHING where it can be said that it is morally true universally?

No.

For instance: "Rape is ALWAYS wrong" <<<This would be considered a moral truth. Is it universally true? Is it true even if society deemed that rape was perfectly acceptable?

If there is a victim and a perpetrator, it is always wrong.

Secular morality is not rocket science.

We all live in the same physical universe, with the same physical bodies, subject to the same physical laws.

From that I can extrapolate that what is the best for my well being is almost assuredly what others want as well.

Life is preferable to death, health is preferable to disease, comfort is preferable to pain, etc.

Even if society deemed rape acceptable, would not make it so. You know how you can tell? Ask the victim.

[pocaracas]

Let's think about it for a while.... what is rape?
Sexually abusing an unwilling participant?

Imagine a guy having "sex" with a sheep. Is he raping that sheep? Is that a morally wrong action?
Or does it not apply to inter-species relations?
If not, then how can it be universal? Or absolute?

[Tsun Tsu]

Would you consider rape to be wrong even for those who deem it acceptable? And what about advanced life across the universe. If it exists, would rape also be wrong for that society, even if they accept it as normal or "ok"?

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This place is very active. I thank you for this, and really wasn't expecting it.

I believe most people are agreeing that morality is subjective. Rape is wrong for one group, but is acceptable to another. Is this correct?
So far, in my results from other sites, Theists would regard rape as universally wrong despite those viewing it as acceptable. In other words, theists believe "Universal truth is bigger than society, larger than the universe. They would say it is universally true regardless of dissenting views. Those holding the opposite view are simply wrong".
In this case the theist would say that those regarding rape as acceptable are wrong... it is still an evil or "wrong" thing to do.
How does the atheist counter this?

I would agree that those that think rape is morally acceptable are wrong. However, that is my own subjective opinion. I counter the theist claim simply by pointing out that they can't demonstrate the existence of a source of universal morality, only assert that it is so.

Lets say the theist countered by challenging the Atheist to provide an example of when rape is "good". The Theist would possibly say: "It is universally true rape is not good despite dissenting opinions. If the Atheist holds that this is NOT universally true regardless of dissenting opinions, then the atheist would have to assert that rape is "sometimes good".

How would one go on to defend "subjective morality", by providing an instance where rape is "good", and "not the wrong thing to do"? If morality is subjective, entire cultures could deem rape as acceptable or even "good". Are they wrong, or is the "wrongness" of rape then only determined by the number of people who believe it to be wrong? Is there no higher law than our own opinion on the matter, or is there something bigger than the world, that makes it wrong despite society's opinion? Are the people who regard it as acceptable, simply "wrong"?

You don't have to take the questions one by one, I'm just trying to be as clear as possible

Thank you

[Neo-Scholastic]

Rape is indeed always wrong. However it is NOT an universal truth.

And the rules for circles don't apply to triangles. So what? Just because something only applies universally to all human moral agents has no bearing on whether it is objectively right or wrong. My but you do like to dance.

[Tsun Tsu]

Let's think about it for a while.... what is rape?
Sexually abusing an unwilling participant?

Imagine a guy having "sex" with a sheep. Is he raping that sheep? Is that a morally wrong action?
Or does it not apply to inter-species relations?
If not, then how can it be universal? Or absolute?

Let me clarify this to make sure I am addressing it correctly.. are you postulating then that it is not universally wrong or bad for a human male to rape a sheep? And would you then hold that the only alternative is then true, "it is sometimes good for human males to rape sheep"?
Thanks for making it clear for me

And can you think of any circumstance that would make human to human rape a "good" thing, or do you assert that it is "always wrong despite social opinions"?

[pocaracas]

Let's think about it for a while.... what is rape?
Sexually abusing an unwilling participant?

Imagine a guy having "sex" with a sheep. Is he raping that sheep? Is that a morally wrong action?
Or does it not apply to inter-species relations?
If not, then how can it be universal? Or absolute?

Let me clarify this to make sure I am addressing it correctly.. are you postulating then that it is not universally wrong or bad for a human male to rape a sheep? And would you then hold that the only alternative is then true, "it is sometimes good for human males to rape sheep"?
Thanks for making it clear for me

And can you think of any circumstance that would make human to human rape a "good" thing, or do you assert that it is "always wrong despite social opinions"?

As far as I'm concerned, I'm indifferent to whether it's good or bad to rape a sheep.
Some people may be grossed by it, but then again, many are grossed by looking at certain members of the human population... certain obese members....
Is something gross immoral?

[Tsun Tsu]

So the question... Does absolute universal moral truth exist? Is there ANYTHING where it can be said that it is morally true universally?

No.

For instance: "Rape is ALWAYS wrong" <<<This would be considered a moral truth. Is it universally true? Is it true even if society deemed that rape was perfectly acceptable?

If there is a victim and a perpetrator, it is always wrong.

Secular morality is not rocket science.

We all live in the same physical universe, with the same physical bodies, subject to the same physical laws.

From that I can extrapolate that what is the best for my well being is almost assuredly what others want as well.

Life is preferable to death, health is preferable to disease, comfort is preferable to pain, etc.

Even if society deemed rape acceptable, would not make it so. You know how you can tell? Ask the victim.

I bolded parts of your quote, and thanks for answering. Your bolded quotes seem to make for a universal truth.

You are very strongly asserting that one human raping another is always wrong under any circumstance. This would be the equivalent of a universal truth, because it is true regardless of time, location or public opinion. How does your view in any way differ with holding it as universally true that rape is wrong?

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Let me clarify this to make sure I am addressing it correctly.. are you postulating then that it is not universally wrong or bad for a human male to rape a sheep? And would you then hold that the only alternative is then true, "it is sometimes good for human males to rape sheep"?
Thanks for making it clear for me

And can you think of any circumstance that would make human to human rape a "good" thing, or do you assert that it is "always wrong despite social opinions"?

As far as I'm concerned, I'm indifferent to whether it's good or bad to rape a sheep.
Some people may be grossed by it, but then again, many are grossed by looking at certain members of the human population... certain obese members....
Is something gross immoral?

So if I understand you correctly, your opinion is that raping sheep is neither good nor bad. Am I correct?

And how about human to human... is it ALWAYS wrong or sometimes Good? And could you provide an example of the "good" rape, if you are of the opinion that it is sometimes good?

Thank you

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Yes... hence the word "rape" being used here to differentiate consensual from non consensual sex. To be forcibly raped. Is it universally true that it is wrong to rape?

My comment was in reference to you considering a circumstance where rape was accepted. If it's accepted it's not rape.

Accepted by society... forcible sex is still rape

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Yes... hence the word "rape" being used here to differentiate consensual from non consensual sex. To be forcibly raped. Is it universally true that it is wrong to rape?

Define the scope of "universally true". To humanity? To all known species? To all moral agents, known and unknown? Something else?

By universally true, I mean it is true regardless of time or location or prevailing opinion. Does the truth that rape is wrong supersede human social acceptance? If so, then the Atheist has to deal with a higher moral code.