If the universe was fine tuned for our life...

[Heywood]

Like I said. You're expanding and contracting your definitions to include only what you want to include. That's the Texas sharpshooter fallacy. A chameleon animal doesn't intentionally design the subreality which is what you were originally arguing for. First it was designed, then the product of intellect, then reduced to merely having a brain. You're rubber band man.

I don't claim a chameleon produces a sub reality. That is your claim. I am claiming that a chameleon requires a certain amount of intelligence to do what it does in order to refute your claim that chameleons have no intelligence. All chameleon have some level of intelligence. A brain/nervous system is just a physical thing I can point to in which that intelligence resides. The fact that all chameleons have brains/nervous systems suggest they have some intelligence(but that is another argument entirely).

There is no Texas Sharp shooter fallacy. There is only your obfuscation. I'm not even sure you properly understand what a Texas Sharp Shooter Fallacy is. Here is an example of a Texas Sharp shooter fallacy:

Suppose you want to reduce airline crashes. So you look at 1000 different variables. You notice that planes with red markings on their tails crashed 4 times as much as planes with different color markings on their tails. Now after examining so many variables just by random happenstance you would expect to see at least one variable show up more than the others. After conducting such a study...declaring red markings on tails of planes makes them more likely to crash would be a Texas Sharp Shooter Fallacy.

[Cyberman]

By here, you mean in real life?

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Yes, in real life and in my home town. They appear as suddenly as a fart in a lift, hang around for about as long and are received just as welcome. They also have a tendency to get up your nose and make you feel sick.

[Anomalocaris]

We get a few of those round here sometimes, usually when the weather's ok. Like our resident faithful, they tend to communicate in caps lock. They must think they can make up in volume what they lack in credibility.

They are but borrowing the secret of success of their religion - make up with the leering threat of torture in hell for what it lacks in plausibility.

[abaris]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Yes, in real life and in my home town. They appear as suddenly as a fart in a lift, hang around for about as long and are received just as welcome. They also have a tendency to get up your nose and make you feel sick.

Didn't have the misfortune to run into one of those. As I said, the only ones appearing off and on are the Yehowah folks. And even them haven't knocked on my door so far.

But I didn't encounter the famous fart in the lift also. Apart from the occasional one I left there personally for good measure.

[Jackalope]

Back to our world. You are correct. When we make observations at the quantum level it appears some events have no local causes. But causality tells us they have causes none the less. The notion that our reality is just a sub-reality of a larger reality is easier for me to accept than the idea that causality doesn't always hold.

The universe doesn't care what is easier for Heywood, myself, or anyone else to accept.

I find the double-slit experiment results difficult to accept - nonetheless, the results are what they are.

The crux of the matter is this - we don't know those things (your premises D & E) to be true, so your conclusion F is, as far as we can tell, unsupported. (And before you get your panties in a twist, I'm not arguing against causality - I just happen to think your argument is shit.)

[The Grand Nudger]

Premise A: Realities can contain sub realities. - Well, I haven't seen this established at all, but a premise is a premise, so let's roll with it, eh?

Premise B: We observe sub realities coming into existence. - Like minecraft, or any number of other non-specific simulations of -something-, okay.

Premise C: We always observe the hand of intellect participating in the creation of a sub reality. - A minecraft "sub-reality" is a procedural generation.

Premise D: We never observe sub realities coming into existence without an intellect. - This was just a restatement of the above, it's a poor premise for the same reason as above.

Conclusion: Our observations suggest that sub realities require the hand of intellect to come into existence. - Our observations suggest that intelligence is not required to cause a sub-reality to come into existence, as per B, and what you have accepted as an example of B.

No comp in that one, course, one premise was assumed, and two were demonstrably flawed. That your conclusion was in error is as unsurprising as your insistence upon it. Pretty sure we covered this ground before you set that out the way you did....why didn't you alter your premise to reflect your own comments on the matter, and information which had been presented to you prior?

[Smaug]

Well, there's still a large flaw all the compositions above. If sub-realities come into existanse by intellect then what are actually intellect and (sub) reality?? These are not obvious notions as soon as you try to use formal logic.

[dyresand]

Well, there's still a large flaw all the compositions above. If sub-realities come into existanse by intellect then what are actually intellect and (sub) reality?? These are not obvious notions as soon as you try to use formal logic.

Sub-Realities could not exist.
i just tried think about it... and it really could not happen.
what we hardly know our on reality so why question sub-realities existence.
when our reality and existence needs to be explained first.

[Drich]

...wouldn't it be much like a Minecraft world? Flat, infinite, with (potentially) infinite resources and without many of the dangers and complexities of the real world? Especially considering that the creator God is proposed (at least by the major monotheistic religions) as an omnipotent being, why would he create a universe where most of the space is empty and/or unsuitable for human life?

If he wanted a huge sandbox to make us humans live and to test us, why not make the whole of the universe like that? After all, he can pop things into existence, pretty much like a computer does when it generates a Minecraft world.

So, the question is: is Notch more intelligent a designer than Yahweh/Allah/Jehovah?

What if we weren't to live an eternity as human?

[dyresand]

...wouldn't it be much like a Minecraft world? Flat, infinite, with (potentially) infinite resources and without many of the dangers and complexities of the real world? Especially considering that the creator God is proposed (at least by the major monotheistic religions) as an omnipotent being, why would he create a universe where most of the space is empty and/or unsuitable for human life?

If he wanted a huge sandbox to make us humans live and to test us, why not make the whole of the universe like that? After all, he can pop things into existence, pretty much like a computer does when it generates a Minecraft world.

So, the question is: is Notch more intelligent a designer than Yahweh/Allah/Jehovah?

What if we weren't to live an eternity as human?

That would be an interesting experience oh well i guess when that time comes ill figure it out then what as eternity is like. o\