A rant on gender stereotypes

[Natachan]

The other day I talked with my parents and my brother. My eldest brother is 23 now, and I'm 27, and I began thinking after talking to him.

Most of the time I don't think about gender stereotypes. I'm aware of them, I have always been, but since I am a student I don't have much time to dwell on them and most of the time it's just to say fuck it. But talking to him I did think on it. I am a woman. I can fix wiring in my home, do maintanence on my car including brakes belts and wiring, I do carpentry, I work making and testing concrete, I am a student of engineering. Add to this I can neither cook not sew. I am horrid at cleaning, wear work boots and jeans stained with concrete and grease (nice clothes are not compatible with cranes and concrete mixers :p ). Almost all female stereotypes I scorn. My brother is a music major. He is an excellent cook, and a good musician. He is stylish, and takes great pride in his suits. He can knit. And he is inept with any physical task. He can't even change a tire. He doesn't play sports, he has disdain for them, despite the fact that he is tall and very strong. He is also aware of the gender stereotypes, but I don't know what he thinks of them, except that he laughs at a number of them.

Both of is receive some trouble from these. For my brother in his chosen profession it only amounts to a little mocking. But in myself, I don't like it. I've never liked it. When I was a young girl growing up I beat up any boy who spoke them to me. By genetic accident I am, and was, bigger and stronger than most of them (I'm 5'9", and fairly strong and well muscled). As an adult it varies from glances at me I'm not supposed to notice to having to fight against preferential treatment given to my male classmates. I don't like people who look at me like I'm broken, or that I'm abnormal. Simply because I won't plaster my face with powders and I don't dress or act like they think I should.

But why? Why do these stereotypes exist and wha purpose do they serve (other than to irritate)? I know that men don't all hate or oppress women, but they are aware of those stereotypes as well as I am. Even those men who are my friends and acquaintances still see me as somewhat odd.

[Faith No More]

I despise gender stereotypes. I think they culturally box us in and prevent us from moving forward. As a male, I can feel people's judgement for being in touch and aware of my emotions. Society tells us that a man is supposed to be an unfeeling neanderthal that suppresses any emotion that isn't anger. It becomes tiresome and tedious to deal with.

[John V]

The other day I talked with my parents and my brother. My eldest brother is 23 now, and I'm 27, and I began thinking after talking to him.

Most of the time I don't think about gender stereotypes. I'm aware of them, I have always been, but since I am a student I don't have much time to dwell on them and most of the time it's just to say fuck it. But talking to him I did think on it. I am a woman. I can fix wiring in my home, do maintanence on my car including brakes belts and wiring, I do carpentry, I work making and testing concrete, I am a student of engineering. Add to this I can neither cook not sew. I am horrid at cleaning, wear work boots and jeans stained with concrete and grease (nice clothes are not compatible with cranes and concrete mixers :p ). Almost all female stereotypes I scorn. My brother is a music major. He is an excellent cook, and a good musician. He is stylish, and takes great pride in his suits. He can knit. And he is inept with any physical task. He can't even change a tire. He doesn't play sports, he has disdain for them, despite the fact that he is tall and very strong. He is also aware of the gender stereotypes, but I don't know what he thinks of them, except that he laughs at a number of them.

Both of is receive some trouble from these. For my brother in his chosen profession it only amounts to a little mocking. But in myself, I don't like it. I've never liked it. When I was a young girl growing up I beat up any boy who spoke them to me. By genetic accident I am, and was, bigger and stronger than most of them (I'm 5'9", and fairly strong and well muscled). As an adult it varies from glances at me I'm not supposed to notice to having to fight against preferential treatment given to my male classmates. I don't like people who look at me like I'm broken, or that I'm abnormal. Simply because I won't plaster my face with powders and I don't dress or act like they think I should.

But why? Why do these stereotypes exist

Because they're generally fairly accurate.

and wha purpose do they serve (other than to irritate)?

They allow us to make determinations with limited information which, again, are generally fairly accurate.

I know that men don't all hate or oppress women, but they are aware of those stereotypes as well as I am. Even those men who are my friends and acquaintances still see me as somewhat odd.

You are somewhat odd. Sorry, but fewer women than men can do brake work. So, if someone says "my friend fixed the brakes on my car" and that's all the information we have to go on, most people will conclude that the friend is male. Sure, sometimes they'll be wrong, but more often than not they'll be right.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

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The other day I talked with my parents and my brother. My eldest brother is 23 now, and I'm 27, and I began thinking after talking to him.

Most of the time I don't think about gender stereotypes. I'm aware of them, I have always been, but since I am a student I don't have much time to dwell on them and most of the time it's just to say fuck it. But talking to him I did think on it. I am a woman. I can fix wiring in my home, do maintanence on my car including brakes belts and wiring, I do carpentry, I work making and testing concrete, I am a student of engineering. Add to this I can neither cook not sew. I am horrid at cleaning, wear work boots and jeans stained with concrete and grease (nice clothes are not compatible with cranes and concrete mixers :p ). Almost all female stereotypes I scorn. My brother is a music major. He is an excellent cook, and a good musician. He is stylish, and takes great pride in his suits. He can knit. And he is inept with any physical task. He can't even change a tire. He doesn't play sports, he has disdain for them, despite the fact that he is tall and very strong. He is also aware of the gender stereotypes, but I don't know what he thinks of them, except that he laughs at a number of them.

Both of is receive some trouble from these. For my brother in his chosen profession it only amounts to a little mocking. But in myself, I don't like it. I've never liked it. When I was a young girl growing up I beat up any boy who spoke them to me. By genetic accident I am, and was, bigger and stronger than most of them (I'm 5'9", and fairly strong and well muscled). As an adult it varies from glances at me I'm not supposed to notice to having to fight against preferential treatment given to my male classmates. I don't like people who look at me like I'm broken, or that I'm abnormal. Simply because I won't plaster my face with powders and I don't dress or act like they think I should.

But why? Why do these stereotypes exist

Because they're generally fairly accurate.

and wha purpose do they serve (other than to irritate)?

They allow us to make determinations with limited information which, again, are generally fairly accurate.

I know that men don't all hate or oppress women, but they are aware of those stereotypes as well as I am. Even those men who are my friends and acquaintances still see me as somewhat odd.

You are somewhat odd. Sorry, but fewer women than men can do brake work. So, if someone says "my friend fixed the brakes on my car" and that's all the information we have to go on, most people will conclude that the friend is male. Sure, sometimes they'll be wrong, but more often than not they'll be right.

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[Losty]

What is frustrating for me as a parent is people who think it's their place to tell my son how he should and shouldn't behave because he's a boy. Complete strangers saying shit like "boys don't cry, you gotta be tough". No, jackass, my son is perfectly welcome to express his emotions in whatever way feels natural to him.

[Natachan]

But here's the interesting question, WHY are they seen as generally valid? Do most girls disdain doing their own brake work because they generally disdain the work, or because they are pressured not to do it? I was discouraged from learning it because it wasn't ladylike to be covered in engine grease. If there was no pressure would we see more women who were mechanics and engineers and whatnot? Do men disdain cooking because they genuinely have no interest, or because it is discouraged since cooking is women's work?

[John V]

But here's the interesting question, WHY are they seen as generally valid? Do most girls disdain doing their own brake work because they generally disdain the work, or because they are pressured not to do it? I was discouraged from learning it because it wasn't ladylike to be covered in engine grease. If there was no pressure would we see more women who were mechanics and engineers and whatnot? Do men disdain cooking because they genuinely have no interest, or because it is discouraged since cooking is women's work?

It's not either/or, it's and. There are real biological differences between men and women, and social constructs which reinforce those differences.

[Natachan]

I disagree. While we are sexually dimorphic, most men are bigger and stronger than most women and most women can tolerate pain better than most men, I don't think cognitively there's much difference. The data on that isn't clear. Most of the women I've met, and most of the studies I've read, point to conditioning. Women are conditioned to be a certain way, and men another. Those stereotypes largely are societal, and conditioned into us.

[Minimalist]

They exist because men with tiny dicks wrote bibles and korans to keep women in their place.

[John V]

I disagree. While we are sexually dimorphic, most men are bigger and stronger than most women and most women can tolerate pain better than most men, I don't think cognitively there's much difference. The data on that isn't clear. Most of the women I've met, and most of the studies I've read, point to conditioning. Women are conditioned to be a certain way, and men another. Those stereotypes largely are societal, and conditioned into us.

I've seen studies that acknowledge that both nature and nurture play a role.

Some differences between the sexes are found across cultures. These are likely biological. Some differences do not hold up across all cultures. THese are likely conditioned.

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They exist because men with tiny dicks wrote bibles and korans to keep women in their place.

Leave it to Minnie to come into a thread on stereotypes by bringing up stereotypes based on penis size.