If I were an Atheist

[abaris]

Its your fellow atheists who should have a problem with the weak atheist position. If they can't convince fellow atheists to opine God doesn't exist then it must be a terribly weak case.

You're speaking of god, god, god as it were an absolute. I assume you're talking about the christian god. Now I may be what's called a weak atheist, but given the evidence for the existence of the christian god I'm 99.9 percent sure that this one god doesn't exist. The tale, the myth and the timeline just don't add up. I already started to have my doubts as a child and went through the don't care stage for decades. Same goes for Allah and all the other scripted gods out there. Still existing and long forgotten included. They're all made in our image and not the other way round.

What I will never be able to rule out is the existence of some neutral uncaring force making the universe tick. That's not to say I believe in that. It's only that I can't argue nor prove a negative.

As I keep saying, we, as humans, are a chicken fart in worlds history. We clocked off about 5 percent of the time dynosaurs walked the earth. And just as the dynosaurs we will dissapear at some point and planet earth will carry on as if nothing happened.

[pocaracas]

God has no such burden... he just works in mysterious ways, huh?

Not at all, theists claim God caused, designed and created the universe and life.

Oh, god did that, huh? HOW???
Now run along and tell me all about the "Mysterious ways"...

Also, how can theists claim such a thing? How would they know about it? How did that sort of information come to them?
What makes them sure about it? Oh, they know nothing... they just believe it to be so... no substance to the belief.

[Mudhammam]

I'm a philosophical theist not associated with any church or religious belief.

I.e. "I don't understand how philosophy works and my faith is weak."

[*Deidre*]

and she was a mentor and friend. just so much all in one person.

so, may I ask, how do you manage your emotions as an atheist, when it comes to something as traumatic as that?

It is hard. I wish that I had advice. When I first lost faith, I started lighting a candle for her. That sounds opposite of what an atheist would do but the ritual made me feel a connection to her memory and that made me feel a little better.

I like that idea, and I'm sorry for your loss.

so, may I ask, how do you manage your emotions as an atheist, when it comes to something as traumatic as that?

Same as every other human that's ever existed. Most of us rely on the empathy from someone that we're close to. It also depends on the emotion I'm dealing with. I've taken a shit load of money to a batting cage and swatted 90mph fastballs until I've ripped my calluses off. I can also parlay angst into a few hours of aggressive guitar playing that is more full contact sport than music. I can also shut myself away and have a good cry. I've also channeled my emotions into volunteering. A loss of a fond pet might find me spending a day at an animal shelter. A loss of an elderly relative might find me spending an afternoon at a retirement home. Works for me, may not work for others.

A batting cage. lol I could do that. It's funny you say all of this. Because last year, when I found out my grandmother was really sick, and the end was nearing, I started rethinking atheism, and my faith and all of it. And then I started dating all kinds of guys to distract me. At the end of it all, after she died a few months ago, I realized that only I can work through this grief process. I was tempted to go back to an Abrahamic faith, and it wasn't Christianity. Thank goodness I didn't, and it was then that I started to do the hard work myself. My grandmother, similar to Christianity, cushioned a lot of blows for me in my life. It is hard for me to deal with trauma, without some crutch helping me. I like your ideas, and it is helpful to see how someone who doesn't have any faith in a god, copes with tragedy in a way that brings him to a better place. Thank you.

[Dystopia]

For the record I'm a philosophical theist. I believe we owe our existence to a Creator. I agree many religious people are very obnoxious. But that wouldn't be reason to believe God doesn't exist. That would only provide a reason not to like obnoxious religious people.

Philosophy doesn't mean anything in the grounds of proof. And philosophy doesn't correlate very well with theism

They use it because it attempts to make an intellectual equivalency between belief in absurd things (that few do believe in) and claim its the same as belief in God. Its really just an insult same as the claim there isn't any evidence in favor of the existence of God.

God is absurd

I have made a case on this very board citing several lines of evidence. Evidence is simply facts the comport with a belief. The reason atheists claim there is no evidence is because they can say belief in theism is just an irrational belief. Its BS.

Where is the evidence?

[Mudhammam]

---

Haven't seen you in a while. Hello! I used to go back and forth between some notion of an omnipresent Eye and atheism because I thought it offered solace somehow... like a heavenly father or Santa Clause figure... until I couldn't figure how it offered me anything except a weak justification to hold onto wishful thinking while denying the evidence of reality. I'm glad you're doing well Deidre but could you perhaps elaborate on what difference deism makes in your life and why you feel that wasn't available as an atheist? Maybe make a new post about it? I genuinely don't get it.

Well, my grandmother died a few months ago. She was a very powerful source in my life. She became ill about a year ago, and that's when I began wrestling with 'my atheism.' Not from a logical view, but emotionally. My grandmother was a staunch Catholic and had hoped me to 'find God' again, after she died. But, it wasn't so much her religious influence, but rather I was religious for far longer than I ever identified as an atheist. It's hard to shake that theistic residue, in terms of a world view, if you will. But, be it as it may, I don't believe in any 'holy book' anymore, although there are sacred traditions of Christianity that I sometimes miss. The sense of belonging and so forth. Having said that, I find Deism to be more about reason, than mere feelings. It doesn't require a lot from me, other than to stay open to the possibility of a Creator existing. I think I've always felt this way, as an atheist. There was always this part of me that couldn't fully commit to atheism, even though I do think atheism is a natural conclusion one comes to, and not so much a choice.

Over the past few months, I've realized that a lot of my inner struggles came from my grandmother's death. I see that. I know it plays a huge part in why I didn't feel comforted for lack of a better word, as an atheist.

Religion and faith...and spirituality and all of it, really is about emotions. I never felt good about trying to ''prove'' that a God exists, as a Christian, for there is no objective proof. But, there is comfort, if you wish to seek it. No one knows if a deity exists or not for certain, but I can hope in one. That is what Deism offers to me and it offers a strange bit of comfort during my grieving process right now.

How will I feel 6 months from now? Hard to say. But, for now...this is where I am. Hope that helps.

---

I totally get that and understand what you're going through in terms of grasping onto something that resembles your past faith to comfort you in your loss. I was in that same space for a couple of years before I reached the point where I'm at today. I will just suggest this, since this was my experience: if you're able to disconnect the emotional attachment to God from the intellectual inquiry, you might find, as I did, that whether God exists or not has zero effect on the pain you must endure or how you will react it, if nothing else because a God who is worthy of the title and/or our supplications---and/or whether they're offered in the context of speaking simply to ourselves, Luck, Fate, Zeus, or Jesus---surely can't be so petty to care if you believe in him/her/it or not.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Laughably incorrect.

Make your case...I've made mine.

I haven't seen your evidence, a/k/a your case. What "evidence" I've seen proffered from other theists -- wonderment at a complex universe, the complexity of biodiversity, etc -- are equally explicable without appealing to a deity, and do not comprise any physical remnant or effect which is not explicable by more parsimonious explanations.

Other arguments, which also are not evidence, refer to Kalam, or ontology, and other allegedly reasonable appeals which have been refuted.

So, you claim to have evidence. Let's see it. Remember, evidence is not a "logical" argument or one of Anselm's "proofs". Evidence exists in the real world, is palpable, and objective. And by the way, you haven't even defined your deity. Before you lay out your "evidence", do take the time to define what you understand to be "god", so that we have an established set of goalposts that will not move throughout the conversation.

As for my evidence for the absence of a deity, I'll go on ahead and present it now: it's the absence of said deity. Don't see him at the corner market, don't see him in the White House, he hasn't been to school since you-know-who knows when. Hell, some believers even allege he wasn't even in his own grave -- now that's absent!

So, whatcha got there, bud? Solid stuff will be required. Bullshit need not apply.

Go!

[jesus_wept]

Perhaps you would like to give me a factual argument for god from the evidence first?

I've already done that...I'll find the link to it.

I'm still waiting, and wondering why you couldn't just include the link in this reply...

Edit, do you mean the appeals to ignorance, arguments from the numbers, personal incredulity, non sequiturs, strawmen, special pleading and practically every other fallacy that can be found in this thread?

https://atheistforums.org/thread-17548.html

If so I can only repeat, perhaps you would like to give me a factual argument for god from the evidence first?

[Mr Greene]

If I were an atheist (a real atheist that actually believes and claims God doesn’t exist) ...
I wouldn't antagonize anyone, bash them over the head, question their sanity, just make the case and let it go at that.

BS; The statement "I don't believe in god" is antagonistic to theists and does provoke bashing from that quarter. That's why it's pointless to label ourselves as 'agnostics' and thus why we refer to ourselves as 'atheists'.
In the terms of xtians, "reap what you sow".

As for why I do not believe the claims of religious people?
They are dishonest, they are seen to be dishonest and revel in their dishonesty. Why the **** would I believe the claims of anyone who I knew to be dishonest?

[FatAndFaithless]

Always nice to hear a theist tell us what we have to believe to be 'Real" atheist.