Frustrating research

[Mudhammam]

So, I'm quite peeved at the moment. I'm reading Loeb Classical Library's publication of Xenophon's Memorabilia, and there are numerous cross references to Plato's Symposium, of which I am trying to make use. Except that there is a big fucking problem. My translation of Plato, and apparently all of those I can find online, adhere to the Stephanus pagination system of line numbering, and according to this Symposium begins at 172a and ends at 223d. Yet in the two references to Symposium in the commentary notes of Memorabilia, mention is only made to "Pl. Smp. 22b" and "Pl. Smp 4.10-26." But there is no "section 4" or "section 22" in any translation or catalog of Plato's Symposium that I can find. For the first, I discovered that "22b" corresponded to "222b" in the translation of Symposium I own and for which all online texts seem to agree, so you might think "4.10-26" corresponds to "204," except it doesn't appear to, and it also wouldn't make sense for sections 176-199 in the standard text. So, what the fuck version of Symposium is it to which Loeb refers? I have an even more perplexing question beyond this but if no one can help me here, I doubt putting forth my other question would be of much use.

If you can solve this, thank you in advance to whoever you are. I've wasted like over an hour of my day researching this bullshit and coming across no solution.

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I'm also very early in Memorabilia so I feel like I'm going to come across this a lot, so the sooner I can follow along the better!

[Pyrrho]

My first thought, without actually knowing the answer to your question, is that maybe the Loeb Classical Library has their own numbering system, which would mean you would need their relevant volume of Plato.

But why don't you tell us what pages the references are on, and I will take a look in my Loeb Xenophon and see if I can figure out what they are? Unfortunately, though, I do not have Plato in the Loeb edition, so I expect I will not be able to help you test my initial idea. But I might be able to figure something out.

[Minimalist]

Can't help.....


It's all Greek to me.

[Mudhammam]

So, I'm working with this exact version of Memorabilia. The first instance I came across the Symposium references:

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Fortunately, the note refers to a certain Euthydemus, mentioned only once in the Symposium, so locating the passage (as I said, in 222b instead of 22b) was relatively easy (my second, or other question, relates to a translation issue on the point about his being a "son of Diocles" but I'll save that for later).
The second reference (pg 57), of which I still can't find in the Symposium translations that use the "stephanus pagination" systematization (like, literally, all of them):

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The third (pg 173):

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Wait, what? 173b... Yep. It corresponds EXACTLY with 173b in my copy of Symposium... So what the fluck is up with THAT!!? To recap, the Loeb version of Memorabilia refers to Smp. 22b, 4:10-26, and 173b, of which in the actual Symposium corresponds to 222b, ?, and 173b!

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[Pyrrho]

Interesting. I have the older version of the book, which has NONE of those notes on those pages. But the text is also different as well.

Did you try making the guess of a misprint for the second, of it really being 210-26?

I hate to say it, but it looks like they did a pretty sloppy job of redoing the book. I think I am glad I have the old version.

[Mudhammam]

Interesting. I have the older version of the book, which has NONE of those notes on those pages. But the text is also different as well.

Did you try making the guess of a misprint for the second, of it really being 210-26?

I hate to say it, but it looks like they did a pretty sloppy job of redoing the book. I think I am glad I have the old version.

I think I figured it out. First, I came across a fourth reference to Plato's Symposium in the notes, which also appears correct (it refers to sections 220d-21c). Then I checked Xenophon's Symposium 4.10-26, and it appears to correspond to the "Pl. Smp. 4:10-26" reference; I guess I'll attribute that and the "22b" (actually 222b in Plato) to sloppiness, as you say. What copy do you have? Mine is the 2013 revision of the original 1923 publication.

[Pyrrho]

Mine is the 1923 version. So mine has none of the changes that Henderson made.

So the sloppiness in the second reference is not in the number, but in referring you to Plato instead of Xenophon.

You might want to keep a list of all of the errata you find. If you have a web site, you might want to put it all there, so that maybe some other unfortunate person might be saved the trouble you have had to deal with.

[Mudhammam]

Fortunately if they do a Google search of "Pl. Smp. 4.10-26" they'll see this!