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Why do you believe in God?
#31
RE: Why do you believe in God?
(April 30, 2015 at 4:05 pm)Lek Wrote:
(April 30, 2015 at 4:05 pm)Lek Wrote:
(April 30, 2015 at 3:49 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: It is the story of Abraham and Isaac.  In the story, being willing to kill your child, just because God tells you to do so, is considered to be a good thing.  One either accepts such stories or one does not.  Every Christian, every Jew, and every Muslim, should be willing to do that, as it is part of their heritage.  It is only by rejecting their own sacred scripture that one can consistently refuse to kill one's children when commanded by God to do so.  All of the Christians, Jews, and Muslims who would refuse to kill their children, whenever God tells them to do so, are rejecting the clear message of text sacred to them, and without which, their religions are unsupported and unworthy of belief.

Okay.  But realize that God stopped Abraham and I don't know anybody else who God commanded to kill their child.


First of all Abraham was willing.  Just imagine the disfunctional family life the followed. Angel

Second, though God didn't exactly commanded it, Jephthah promised to sacrifice the first person to greet him after a battle if god gave him victory.  That person was his young daughter.  He did sacrifice her and the Bible appears to approve.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god.  If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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#32
RE: Why do you believe in God?
(April 27, 2015 at 3:40 pm)Lek Wrote:
(April 27, 2015 at 3:28 pm)Alex K Wrote: Yes, absolutely, although it's hard to predict what one would do in extreme situations. The point is that you are preparing to die not only for unevidenced beliefs,  but also under the condition that you are not really going to die, also unevidenced. That's the same rationale every odd suicide bomber uses. You're just a hair's breadth away from that.

You're saying that I have beliefs with no supporting evidence, but I've given you my evidence.  I'm not like a suicide bomber in that I'm not trying to hurt anyone else.  I'm not even trying to die.  The instance which we are discussing would be if someone was trying to kill me.

You have only expressed incredulity and ignorance.

Your incredulity and ignorance are not evidence.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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#33
RE: Why do you believe in God?
(April 30, 2015 at 7:07 pm)professor Wrote: Parkers, you may want to consider the murdering Muslims who are currently rampaging in the name of their god,
demanding others bow before Allah or die.
They seem to care about everyone's faith.

I find it interesting that the OP's question on why one believes in God, is nitpicked so quickly and turned on Lek's honest answer.
Reminds me of one of those Nature shows where Darwin's religion is constantly promoted, as a victim is selected by the prey.

I think that people, myself included, that come on forums want to have a discussion. You have to admit, the discussion would grind to a halt if we all just said, "Oh, I see, Lek. Interesting answer. "LOL
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#34
RE: Why do you believe in God?
(April 30, 2015 at 5:24 pm)robvalue Wrote: God forgot about the "last minute save" with this guy too...

http://youtu.be/Pt66kbYmXXk

But I'm sure it's fine because God sounds like good or something.


Here is the text, with added emphasis:

Judges 11 King James Version (KJV)

11 Now Jephthah the Gileadite was a mighty man of valour, and he was the son of an harlot: and Gilead begat Jephthah.
And Gilead's wife bare him sons; and his wife's sons grew up, and they thrust out Jephthah, and said unto him, Thou shalt not inherit in our father's house; for thou art the son of a strange woman.
Then Jephthah fled from his brethren, and dwelt in the land of Tob: and there were gathered vain men to Jephthah, and went out with him.
And it came to pass in process of time, that the children of Ammon made war against Israel.
And it was so, that when the children of Ammon made war against Israel, the elders of Gilead went to fetch Jephthah out of the land of Tob:
And they said unto Jephthah, Come, and be our captain, that we may fight with the children of Ammon.
And Jephthah said unto the elders of Gilead, Did not ye hate me, and expel me out of my father's house? and why are ye come unto me now when ye are in distress?
And the elders of Gilead said unto Jephthah, Therefore we turn again to thee now, that thou mayest go with us, and fight against the children of Ammon, and be our head over all the inhabitants of Gilead.
And Jephthah said unto the elders of Gilead, If ye bring me home again to fight against the children of Ammon, and the Lorddeliver them before me, shall I be your head?
10 And the elders of Gilead said unto Jephthah, The Lord be witness between us, if we do not so according to thy words.
11 Then Jephthah went with the elders of Gilead, and the people made him head and captain over them: and Jephthah uttered all his words before the Lord in Mizpeh.
1And Jephthah sent messengers unto the king of the children of Ammon, saying, What hast thou to do with me, that thou art come against me to fight in my land?

13 And the king of the children of Ammon answered unto the messengers of Jephthah, Because Israel took away my land, when they came up out of Egypt, from Arnon even unto Jabbok, and unto Jordan: now therefore restore those lands again peaceably.
14 And Jephthah sent messengers again unto the king of the children of Ammon:
15 And said unto him, Thus saith Jephthah, Israel took not away the land of Moab, nor the land of the children of Ammon:
16 But when Israel came up from Egypt, and walked through the wilderness unto the Red sea, and came to Kadesh;
17 Then Israel sent messengers unto the king of Edom, saying, Let me, I pray thee, pass through thy land: but the king of Edom would not hearken thereto. And in like manner they sent unto the king of Moab: but he would not consent: and Israel abode in Kadesh.
18 Then they went along through the wilderness, and compassed the land of Edom, and the land of Moab, and came by the east side of the land of Moab, and pitched on the other side of Arnon, but came not within the border of Moab: for Arnon was the border of Moab.
19 And Israel sent messengers unto Sihon king of the Amorites, the king of Heshbon; and Israel said unto him, Let us pass, we pray thee, through thy land into my place.
20 But Sihon trusted not Israel to pass through his coast: but Sihon gathered all his people together, and pitched in Jahaz, and fought against Israel.
21 And the Lord God of Israel delivered Sihon and all his people into the hand of Israel, and they smote them: so Israel possessed all the land of the Amorites, the inhabitants of that country.
22 And they possessed all the coasts of the Amorites, from Arnon even unto Jabbok, and from the wilderness even unto Jordan.
23 So now the Lord God of Israel hath dispossessed the Amorites from before his people Israel, and shouldest thou possess it?
24 Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? So whomsoever the Lord our God shall drive out from before us, them will we possess.
25 And now art thou any thing better than Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab? did he ever strive against Israel, or did he ever fight against them,
26 While Israel dwelt in Heshbon and her towns, and in Aroer and her towns, and in all the cities that be along by the coasts of Arnon, three hundred years? why therefore did ye not recover them within that time?
27 Wherefore I have not sinned against thee, but thou doest me wrong to war against me: the Lord the Judge be judge this day between the children of Israel and the children of Ammon.
28 Howbeit the king of the children of Ammon hearkened not unto the words of Jephthah which he sent him.
29 Then the Spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over unto the children of Ammon.
30 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,

31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.

32 So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the Lord delivered them into his hands.
33 And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel.
34 And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the Lord, and I cannot go back.
36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the Lord, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the Lord hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.
37 And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.
38 And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.
39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,
40 That the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year.

"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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#35
RE: Why do you believe in God?
(April 30, 2015 at 10:02 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: The words of Jesus himself, according to Matthew 5:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Yes. Jesus did fulfill the law. Nothing from the law passed away until he fulfilled it. The law has now been fulfilled.

Romans 7:6English Standard Version (ESV)

6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.
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#36
RE: Why do you believe in God?
(May 1, 2015 at 11:53 am)Lek Wrote:
(April 30, 2015 at 10:02 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: The words of Jesus himself, according to Matthew 5:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Yes. Jesus did fulfill the law. Nothing from the law passed away until he fulfilled it. The law has now been fulfilled.

Romans 7:6English Standard Version (ESV)

6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

So a Christian appealing to old testament laws is making an error?
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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#37
RE: Why do you believe in God?
(May 1, 2015 at 11:53 am)Lek Wrote: Yes. Jesus did fulfill the law.  Nothing from the law passed away until he fulfilled it.  The law has now been fulfilled.

Romans 7:6English Standard Version (ESV)

6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Excellent. So blood transfusions are fine and gays are fabulous? And masturbation, too? Great.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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#38
RE: Why do you believe in God?
(May 1, 2015 at 11:57 am)Chas Wrote:
(May 1, 2015 at 11:53 am)Lek Wrote: Yes. Jesus did fulfill the law.  Nothing from the law passed away until he fulfilled it.  The law has now been fulfilled.

Romans 7:6English Standard Version (ESV)

6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Excellent.  So blood transfusions are fine and gays are fabulous?  And masturbation, too?  Great.

I didn't say we don't have a moral code. I just said we're not under the old testament law. Many gays are fine people, by the way. I don't hate people because I disagree with their morality.
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#39
RE: Why do you believe in God?
God had morality wrong first time. Or he changed his mind.

I don't trust him not to change his mind again. Maybe he already has.
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#40
RE: Why do you believe in God?
(May 1, 2015 at 12:16 pm)Lek Wrote:
(May 1, 2015 at 11:57 am)Chas Wrote: Excellent.  So blood transfusions are fine and gays are fabulous?  And masturbation, too?  Great.

I didn't say we don't have a moral code. I just said we're not under the old testament law. Many gays are fine people, by the way. I don't hate people because I disagree with their morality.

Would you say that the Old Testament provides a good moral code, then?
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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