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A Former Atheist
#21
RE: A Former Atheist
Fixed your link there, Esq.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great

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#22
RE: A Former Atheist
(May 2, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Theoretical Skeptic Wrote:
(May 2, 2015 at 7:01 pm)abaris Wrote: So who's Jesus? Christians say he is god. But if he's god, he couldn't die. The trinity is kind of included in the nonsensical things. Easter and Christmas? Also known as Ostara to celebrate the Germanic goddess of fertility and the Saturnalia. Hell and the rapture? Well, what happened with doing away with the nonsense? The earth is about 4,5 billion years old, whereas the bible and the belief in the jewish/christian god just manages to clock of a measly 3000.

I'm not sure I understand. Those things I mentioned are religious misinterpretations of the Bible inspired by other sources like Greek philosophy and mythology. I can't tell if you had gotten that from my post, sorry. So Jesus was a god, but not God. Not Jehovah. The trinity and immortal soul comes from Socrates and Plato, Easter and Christmas are pagan, Hell comes from old Babylonian teachings and Dante and Milton, the Cross from Constantine, the Rapture from Darby, the Bible doesn't state that the universe and earth were created in 6 literal days 6,000 years ago. That is nonsense.  

(bold mine)

So, OP, you're a polytheist?
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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#23
RE: A Former Atheist
(May 2, 2015 at 7:03 pm)Jericho Wrote: It's odd when people pick apart the pieces of the Bible that they believe in...but it is the only source when it comes to the Christian faith.  Either accept all of the Bible, or none of it.  Is it not that simple?

The Bible itself advises to test even every inspired expression. It considered the people of Beroea more noble minded than others because they didn't take the word of the Apostle Paul for granted, but checked the Scriptures daily to see for themselves. (1 John 4:1-3 / Acts 17:10-14) 

So, for example, if you were reading the Bible where Jesus says to the men who brought the prostitute to him "Let he is without sin cast the first stone" a good study Bible will tell you that that didn't actually happen. It is a spurious scripture that appeared in later manuscripts. Part of learning the Bible is learning which parts are literal, and which parts are not, where there are spurious scripture and where there are honest copyist errors. Things of that nature.  

(May 2, 2015 at 6:56 pm)Jericho Wrote: What is the Bible, if not a book full of religious nonsense?

The most accurate and honest history of mankind ever produced. 

(May 2, 2015 at 6:57 pm)Esquilax Wrote:
(May 2, 2015 at 6:55 pm)Theoretical Skeptic Wrote: The Bible without the religious nonsense attached to it. For example, that sex was the original sin, that priests shouldn't marry, that birth control is forbidden, that the Christian is the morally superior, that all good people go to heaven, Jesus died on a cross, the soul is immortal. Hell, the rapture, the trinity, Easter, Christmas etc. 

... And the fact that the bible specifically, unambiguously depicts certain parts of that list within its text doesn't bother you... why? Thinking

Because its a case of tradition effecting translation. If you look deeper you can see where the things I mentioned are not supported in the original language and their influence is pretty well documented. 
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#24
RE: A Former Atheist
So you're saying that the Word of God is not trustworthy ... yet reading it convinced you.

Clearly you are giving testimony against yourself here. Perfect communication is not susceptible to misunderstanding, yet your perfect god needs human translators to tell you what he means where.

What you really have here should be called "The Believer's Guide to Cherry-picking."

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#25
RE: A Former Atheist
(May 2, 2015 at 7:00 pm)Alex K Wrote: What is an example of something you would keep, and how do you decide what to discard?

Keep? That depends upon what you mean by keep. I would have people, whether critics or believers, keep the well documented history of these influences creeping into Christianity and while being aware of them educate themselves on the real meaning of the Bible without those influences. 

All of them. 
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#26
RE: A Former Atheist
(May 2, 2015 at 7:19 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Fixed your link there, Esq.

Danke. I gotta start making a habit of testing those things before I post 'em. Tongue

Theoretical Skeptic Wrote:Because its a case of tradition effecting translation. If you look deeper you can see where the things I mentioned are not supported in the original language and their influence is pretty well documented. 

Well, given that we don't have the originals of any biblical manuscript, making claims about what is and is not present in the original language is fairly laughable. What's also particularly telling is that you're happy to post assertions of what does and doesn't count, but you're remarkably gunshy about how you determine that. One can't help but feel it's simply a position of convenience, rationalized later by this vague stuff.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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#27
RE: A Former Atheist
(May 2, 2015 at 7:53 pm)Theoretical Skeptic Wrote: The most accurate and honest history of mankind ever produced. 

I truly hope you are being facetious. Because if you are completely serious, then I cannot help but question what is going through your mind. To claim to have been an atheist and then say that you now view the Bible as both 'accurate' and 'honest' is incredibly amusing to me.

It makes me wonder why you were ever 'atheist' to begin with. What were your views and thoughts back then? And how did those change because you read the Bible, which many people (even Christians) claim as not a true account? From your words, I do not think you were very firm in your knowledge of religion. So please, do tell.
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#28
RE: A Former Atheist
(May 2, 2015 at 7:10 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Well, I don't know if we can have a good conversation, if you begin by saying you read the bible and thus became a christian, but then go on to dispute that some of the more unambiguous rules are in the bible at all.  That backed up enough for you? So, you read the bible but somehow managed to miss all the parts that might make your position look bad?

Does the bible you've read contain, for example, Leviticus? 

I didn't say I became a Christian, I said I became a believer. And yes, the Bibles I've read contain Leviticus. 

What exactly are your objections to the Bible quotes you gave? 

(May 2, 2015 at 7:29 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote:
(May 2, 2015 at 7:18 pm)Theoretical Skeptic Wrote: I'm not sure I understand. Those things I mentioned are religious misinterpretations of the Bible inspired by other sources like Greek philosophy and mythology. I can't tell if you had gotten that from my post, sorry. So Jesus was a god, but not God. Not Jehovah. The trinity and immortal soul comes from Socrates and Plato, Easter and Christmas are pagan, Hell comes from old Babylonian teachings and Dante and Milton, the Cross from Constantine, the Rapture from Darby, the Bible doesn't state that the universe and earth were created in 6 literal days 6,000 years ago. That is nonsense.  

(bold mine)

So, OP, you're a polytheist?

No. Like the writers of the Bible I'm a henotheist. 
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#29
RE: A Former Atheist
(May 2, 2015 at 9:12 pm)Theoretical Skeptic Wrote: I didn't say I became a Christian, I said I became a believer. And yes, the Bibles I've read contain Leviticus. 

What exactly are your objections to the Bible quotes you gave?

Okay, so if you've read the bible, including Leviticus, then why did you challenge me on whether those passages are in there? You must have known, right?

And my objection to them is that they're heinously immoral, which I grant is not an argument against the bible's factual case- all the factual claims it makes that are completely untrue, like the flood, are that argument- but it is certainly an argument against becoming a christian based on reading the bible. Reading the bible should make one flee that religion as fast and as far as they can.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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#30
RE: A Former Atheist
(May 2, 2015 at 8:12 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: So you're saying that the Word of God is not trustworthy ... yet reading it convinced you.

Clearly you are giving testimony against yourself here. Perfect communication is not susceptible to misunderstanding, yet your perfect god needs human translators to tell you what he means where.

What you really have here should be called "The Believer's Guide to Cherry-picking."

The Word of God? Jesus was the Word of God and perfect. God's communication to the writers of the Bible was inspired. It was temporal in a sense that it applied to the people in the time which it was given, but it's translation was not inspired and so imperfect. The Bible is an example to us in how Jehovah dealt with specific people in a specific time. 
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