What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Ravenshire]

Yes. As I said previously, God met the Israelites where they were at and began to form them into a better people. This process took time.

^Everyone, look at this.

I'm not asking that you agree with Randy on the OT. I don't. But I understand what he is saying. Just try to understand what he is saying. You don't have to agree.

It's complete bullshit no matter how you slice it. If your gawd is the creator of everything and has been around since before the beginning, why did he allow them to become such reprobates in the first place? Maybe your all powerful, all knowing gawd should have looked in his crystal ball, saw what was coming and put some rules in place before shit got out of hand.

Of course, Randy's a coward and will ignore this.

[Randy Carson]

 [...]As long as Randy believes rape is wrong, why does it matter, to you, that he reads/believes the bible? This is an honest question, btw. Not trying to be rude. I'm just a little perplexed as to why anyone would let it bother them so much.

I don't care what he reads/believes. I care about what he posts publicly. It's a matter of principles. Despicable ideas need to be met with a reaction - that's how civilized society enforces ethics. That's how random people  reading this thread (some of which may not know any better) can be made aware, that there are opposing views to the ones expressed by apologists.

And yes - I was raised a Catholic, I was spoon-fed this nonsense since before I was able to think critically and I knew a bunch of Christians, who had a very OT approach to marriage and sex. Not to mention the f-ing Muslims - who still seem to be living in bronze age. So - I'm sorry (well - not really) that it bothers me when apologists do their darndest to try and make horrible primitive people and their customs appear somehow justified - but it does. And Randy can easily avoid my ripostes, by keeping his weasel-y nonsensical rationalizations to himself. 

Can't stand the heat - get the f*** out of my kitchen. (Yes - I am a chef, so pardon me for not being a silver-tongued diplomat - we all express ourselves the way we know how). This is an Atheist Forum, after all. What do you expect? "Amen, brother!"?

How old were you when you left/dropped out of the Catholic Church, HN?

[Ravenshire]

God's plan is better for her.

Gawd's plan is still condoning rape. Face it Randy, your gawd is a sick, malevolent, immoral chucklefuck.

[Ravenshire]

Oh, I understand his position perfectly.  

That's why I just had a little vomit rise in my throat.

Randy's point is that if God had come out and hit everyone with all the morals all at once, it wouldn't have worked. People wouldn't have listened. People would have just dismissed it all right away and never changed. So God had to do it slowly for it to actually work. That's all Randy is saying here. I don't see why that should make you want to vomit.

(i'm going to keep saying this is randy's position not mine so that I don't get accused of believing things I don't actually believe)

Like I said, your gawd shouldn't have let it get so out of hand in the first place.

On the odd occasion that I have to lay down some stiff penalty for my children's behavior, I realize that it's my fault as a dad for allowing the situation to get that bad as much as it is my kids fault.

Your justification smell like bullshit.

[Metis]

Deuteronomy 22:25-27
25 But if out in the country a man happens to meet a young woman pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. 26 Do nothing to the woman; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders a neighbor, 27 for the man found the young woman out in the country, and though the betrothed woman screamed, there was no one to rescue her.

Men died for rape according to the Law of God.

God does not condone rape.

Tell her the rest of that passage Randy, if you're going to quote a Deuteronical law quote all of it.


Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (NIV)
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

In this case they're more bothered about her being betrothed, not raped. It's perceived as a slur upon another male, theft from him if you like. Nothing to do with the dignity of the woman.

[Ravenshire]

If me, a finite mortal being can think of a better way to execute this master plan while minimizing suffering and maximizing happiness what does that say about god?

It says a lot actually. Just nothing Randy wants to hear.

[Ravenshire]

Oh - I have no doubt you haven't come up with all this yourself. Still - you're the one, who preaches this nonsense here, to people (atheists), that you know are bound to find it offensive.

Now, that's interesting.

Why should YOU, an atheist, find it offensive to see an example of God calling people to a higher standard of behavior?

I thought this was exactly the kind of thing that you would appreciate as mankind evolved into a more empathetic and compassionate species.

Well, that's the first time I've ever heard codifying rape translated as "calling people to a higher standard of behavior." Randy, your moral turpitude knows no bounds.

[rexbeccarox]

I... I just...

Randy, I stand by what I've said: your God condones rape. You have shown me absolutely nothing that will change my mind, and in fact, your apologetics make it even worse.

Disgusting.

[Ravenshire]

Then perhaps you should focus your energy on those types of people. Randy is not one of them.

If Randy's too blind to see that gawd could have used his omniscience to foresee what was going to happen and lay down the moral laws before things got that bad, then yes, he is one of them.

[Ravenshire]

This does not apply to Randy.

Yes it does, because Randy thinks he can justify it by bringing in a learning curve.