Immolation, martyrdom and absurdity.

[Brian37]

Ok, just now on facebook I got falsely accused of being a bigot because I pointed out that this pastor in the following story committed suicide for religious reasons. When you read about his life he spent it trying to end bigotry and promote pluralism. Ok, nice and fine, but when I pointed out it wasn't merely depression, which some wanted to use as a dodge to the cause which was religion, I got called a bigot. This is the same false slur when people criticize Islam. You cant even point to former believers of that religion whom agree with you. You cant even point out that you(meaning many, like me) were former believers.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morni...4923792376

But these same people who ignorantly romanticize his needless death would rightfully say the following pastor's suicide if he goes through with that threat, is a religiously motivated suicide?

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/06/19/tex...aign=Texas

The link above talks about a pastor who has threatened to light himself on fire if gay marriage is accepted. 


Sorry my well intended liberals, but the first pastor listed in the first story was religiously motivated to kill himself as much as the other would be if he followed through, and both are part of the same religion. And both thought the act was/or would be, for a "higher purpose" basing  their morals and logic on the same holy book.

This is what I hate about my well intended liberal friends, in the empathetic attempt, all be it good intent, to protect the idea of pluralism, refuse to face the fact that religion is a horrible filter to view the nature of reality, be it about the universe, our planet or our species behavior. 

Our species behavior is not unique to one religion. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Self-immolation

[Minimalist]

Maybe he was just nuts?

[vorlon13]

Moore has (had, sorry) an odd take on scripture. He missed his calling to convert to UU.

Immolation is a VERY unusual form of suicide, I'd suspect some age related cognitive issue that went unnoticed.

[Nope]

It sounds as if he was a good person who was troubled by the continued existence of racism but that doesn't mean that his death wasn't suicide.

Christianity frowns on suicide so admitting that the pastor killed himself might make some feel that he wasn't a 'real' Christian. That is silly but it might be why some are hesitant to use the word suicide even though he obviously killed himself.

When I was about 10 years old, some friends and I were walking down the road toward the creek to catch some fish, when a man called ‘Uncle Billy’ stopped us and called us into his home for a drink of water — but his real purpose was to cheerily tell us about helping to kill ‘n—–s’ and put their heads up on a pole. A section of Grande Saline was (maybe still is) called ‘pole town,’ where the heads were displayed. It was years later before I knew what the name meant.”

It was this type of racial discrimination that Moore said haunted him.

That is sad and disturbing.

[Brian37]

Maybe he was just nuts?

You'd have to be nuts to do what he did sure, but in the case of the first pastor, who had good intent, it is a lie to say it was simply depression. Religion was the gas on that fire(no pun intended). He used religious words in his suicide note like "higher purpose" and "repent" and spent his life in religion promoting religious tolerance.

The second pastor in the second link who did not commit suicide, as of yet that I know, also thinks that act is for a "higher purpose" and would be just as nuts to do so.

The most famous Immolation I know of where the Buddhist Monks lighting themselves on fire. To claim it was not religiously motivated even in that case is absurd. You can find pockets of Buddhists who have attacked in mobs, Muslims. 

The point is in EVERY RELIGION it is false to cherry pick because for every kind act you can do and base it on a religion, there are still others within that religion who can be cruel and also base it on that same religion. 

It is why I constantly point out books like The God Delusion, By Richard Dawkins, The End of Faith, By Sam Harris, God Is Not Great, By Christopher Hitchens but even a undervalued book "The New Atheism" by Victor Stinger. When you have read all those especially, and you have even a basic understanding of evolution and DNA, you know religion is divisive and a very bad filter to gain understanding of our universe, our planet and our human behavior.

[Brian37]

Moore has (had, sorry) an odd take on scripture. He missed his calling to convert to UU.

Immolation is a VERY unusual form of suicide, I'd suspect some age related cognitive issue that went unnoticed.

Right and certainly even with non religious suicides there are indicators, medical, brain illness, or simple depression that can go unnoticed. But it is clear by his own words, and his life as described this was a religiously motivated suicide. 

Again, why would this pastor get a pass on his suicide and claim it was not religious motivated, but these same people would rightfully say the second pastor threatening it was religiously motivated. 

If one can quote a religion or holy book to justify any good intent, it is pure ignorance to claim that it isn't coming from the same source that others use to commit a cruel act. 

Um  no, read the wiki article, we commonly now refer to Immolation as suicide by fire, but that is like calling Sushi fish when it is a concept of style of presentation that can very.  Suicide in this context is an act of sacrifice, it can be done many ways, fire is one of them. But so is Seppuku or Hari Kari (suicide in sacrifice to protect honor). Kamakazi same. Suicide bombers in Islam. All of them stem from the religious idea of sacrifice for the greater good.

We even see this evolutionary behavior in some insects. There are species of ants that will explode their abdomens to kill rivals. Many species of bees will die because they only have one use of their stinger which will kill them upon that one use, and commit suicide to protect the hive.

Unless we see our species behaviors in natural terms we cannot reduce either the pastor who did it with good intent, or the other pastor who did it for bigoted reasons.

[Pyrrho]

... I got called a bigot. This is the same false slur when people criticize Islam. You cant even point to former believers of that religion whom agree with you. You cant even point out that you(meaning many, like me) were former believers.

It would depend on the nature of the criticism.  Some criticisms of particular religions are simply pure bigotry.  Some aren't.  It all depends on the nature of the particular criticism under consideration.  You seem confused on this point.  (So, too, are some "liberals," who imagine all religious criticism is bigotry.)

But these same people who ignorantly romanticize his needless death would rightfully say the following pastor's suicide if he goes through with that threat, is a religiously motivated suicide?

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/06/19/tex...aign=Texas

The link above talks about a pastor who has threatened to light himself on fire if gay marriage is accepted. ...

Rick Scarborough, the pastor who says he will kill himself if gay marriage is accepted, would be doing the world a favor if he killed himself.  My guess is, he is a lying hypocritical piece of shit who will chicken out.  Anyone want to make a bet on this?

[Cyberman]

Moore has (had, sorry) an odd take on scripture. He missed his calling to convert to UU.

Unseen University?

Ulster Unionists?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Moore has (had, sorry) an odd take on scripture. He missed his calling to convert to UU.

Unseen University?

Ulster Unionists?

You, sir, get a kudos for referencing Terry Pratchett AND the Troubles in the same post.  Fucking awesome.

Boru

[vorlon13]

Unitarian Universalist.

Sorry, figured we all knew that . . .