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RE: Answers needed
June 25, 2015 at 10:53 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2015 at 10:56 pm by Louis Chérubin.)
(June 25, 2015 at 10:30 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Hi Louis. How about telling us what you think of those things first? As the resident prophet, I'm pretty sure what you'd say; but if you don't actually say it and complete the prophecy I'll just end up with a headache. You don't want that, do you?
I would love to.
1. Yes, there is a God (seen in nature and the Bible)
2. The universe came from an omnipotent creator
3. My life has purpose: to worship God.
4. People suffer because of sin (which came because God created man with a free will, the best possible creation)
5. Yes, there is life after death
6. Yes, because God created me a moral being
7. Yes, we can know truth (about nature and super-nature)
Did your prophecy come true? :-D My two biggest problems with atheism are the origin of life and the origin of consciousness. Feel free to hack away!
(June 25, 2015 at 10:42 pm)ignoramus Wrote: Tell us your answers first.
It may not be worth responding.
Welcome to the public religious toilets anyway.
We are here for you! Let it out! Tell us something which we've heard a million times before.
If/when you're ready to see past the "truth" of the bible, we'll talk.
Lol. Thanks! See my reply to Stimbo below.
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RE: Answers needed
June 25, 2015 at 10:57 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2015 at 10:59 pm by das_atheist.)
(June 25, 2015 at 9:59 pm)Louis Chérubin Wrote: Hi everyone!
I'm not sure whether this is the right place to post this, but I'd really appreciate some answers to some/all of the following questions. I'm interested in how an average atheist thinks about these topics. It would be great if you could give some explanation for your answers. I'm coming from a protestant worldview.
1. Does God exist?
2. Where did the universe come from?
3. Does my life have a purpose?
4. Why do people suffer?
5. Is there life after death?
6. Can I distinguish right from wrong?
7. Can people know truth?
Sorry for being point form. 
1. The reason I don't believe is because I don't believe things by default, and I've never found any evidence that any of the gods exist.
2. That question implies that the universe came from somewhere. That question makes as much sense to me as I'm guessing this question make to you, " Where did god come from?".
3. The only purpose my life has is the purpose I give it based on observations I've had in the world. I dont believe a god is giving me a certain purpose. If a god was going to give me a purpose, it should probably inform me in some way.
4. Because nature isn't friendly.
5. I think you are dead when you die. Memories are stored in your brain. Once you die your memories go away and you are dead.
6. You have a tool to determine right from wrong, but your brain can make mistakes. As long as your intention through you action is to reduce suffering then you are doing right. If your intention through your actions is to increase suffering then you are doing wrong.
7. I think people can think they know truth, and they can happen to be right or wrong.
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RE: Answers needed
June 25, 2015 at 10:58 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2015 at 10:59 pm by Louis Chérubin.)
(June 25, 2015 at 10:34 pm)Yeauxleaux Wrote: In answer to question 6, I'm gonna say the same thing that I said in another thread the other day
This whole conversation about "How can atheists be moral?" says more about religious people than it does atheists. If you seriously think you can't be moral without the teachings of the Bible, then that means you are a plebeian child who has to have their hand held through life. No ability to think for oneself. Sorry to be blunt, but it's true. Yes, we have morals, we just use our brains and come to our own conclusions on what is moral, instead of being told what to think.
God is a mythical being too, we can't say for sure he doesn't exist, but it is as likely he exists as it is likely werewolves, vampires and faeries exist. He is as mythical as they are.
I'm not saying atheists can't be moral. Atheists are moral (have a moral sense of right and wrong). My question is why. Universal morality implies a standard higher than man.
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RE: Answers needed
June 25, 2015 at 10:59 pm
Because one thing has nothing to do with the other.
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RE: Answers needed
June 25, 2015 at 10:59 pm
Welcome, Loius.
My answering those questions is contingent upon whether you're here to have a fruitful discussion or push an find some converts.
We're all well aware that asking questions is step one in the proselytizer's handbook, and I'm naturally skeptical of someone that dives in with both feet without an introduction thread.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: Answers needed
June 25, 2015 at 11:04 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2015 at 11:06 pm by das_atheist.)
(June 25, 2015 at 10:58 pm)Louis Chérubin Wrote: (June 25, 2015 at 10:34 pm)Yeauxleaux Wrote: In answer to question 6, I'm gonna say the same thing that I said in another thread the other day
This whole conversation about "How can atheists be moral?" says more about religious people than it does atheists. If you seriously think you can't be moral without the teachings of the Bible, then that means you are a plebeian child who has to have their hand held through life. No ability to think for oneself. Sorry to be blunt, but it's true. Yes, we have morals, we just use our brains and come to our own conclusions on what is moral, instead of being told what to think.
God is a mythical being too, we can't say for sure he doesn't exist, but it is as likely he exists as it is likely werewolves, vampires and faeries exist. He is as mythical as they are.
I'm not saying atheists can't be moral. Atheists are moral (have a moral sense of right and wrong). My question is why. Universal morality implies a standard higher than man.
I think moral traits were evolutionarily beneficial. A simple example is to think about murder. A population that murders eachother is not going to thrive compared to a population that works together. Why don't piranhas kill each other? Do they have some morals instilled by a god?
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RE: Answers needed
June 25, 2015 at 11:05 pm
(This post was last modified: June 25, 2015 at 11:09 pm by Louis Chérubin.)
(June 25, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Welcome, Loius.
My answering those questions is contingent upon whether you're here to have a fruitful discussion or push an find some converts.
We're all well aware that asking questions is step one in the proselytizer's handbook, and I'm naturally skeptical of someone that dives in with both feet without an introduction thread.
I'm searching for other worldviews. Online forums are not known for producing converts. :-)
(June 25, 2015 at 11:04 pm)das_atheist Wrote: (June 25, 2015 at 10:58 pm)Louis Chérubin Wrote: I'm not saying atheists can't be moral. Atheists are moral (have a moral sense of right and wrong). My question is why. Universal morality implies a standard higher than man.
I think moral traits were evolutionarily beneficial. A simple example is to think about murder. A population that murders eachother is not going to thrive compared to a population that works together.
Natural selection is usually only applied to individuals though. Murder is often good for the survival of an individual. Why do so many people not want to murder (since you brought up the topic). Why would you care about the life of another person, presuming you could get away with it?
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RE: Answers needed
June 25, 2015 at 11:09 pm
1. Not so far as I've seen or experienced.
2. I don't know. Claiming to have knowledge of something which you objectively don't is the height of absurdity and pomposity.
3. My life has the purpose I assign to it. I have a short stay here, so I choose to participate in things that make me happy with people that make me happy and safe, trying to enjoy all the moments that I have. I fail regularly at this latter part while at work.
4. People suffer because there are a lot of arbitrary events that occur that affect humanity negatively. People suffer because other people are greedy or lack empathy.
5. There is no evidence of life after death. I didn't experience life before birth, I assume I'll return to that state.
6. Yes. Society teaches us an ever changing set of mores. 60 years ago, these white ladies were seen as moral to their societies as they stalked and nearly lynched a 15 year old girl who was guilty of the crime of seeking an education with amongst their children. Today, we see that as despicable. Society taught you that, certainly a god didn't, and especially not the vile character that inhabits your holy book.
7. This is a slimy question. What is your definition of truth? Is it "Truth" with a capital "T?" Or is it just a question of whether humans can know true things? If the latter, then yes.
Good news!
Atheism is not a position that encompasses any stance on the origin of life or consciousness! So, you see, you now have no problems with atheism. Glad I could help.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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RE: Answers needed
June 25, 2015 at 11:14 pm
(June 25, 2015 at 11:05 pm)Louis Chérubin Wrote: Natural selection is usually only applied to individuals though. Murder is often good for the survival of an individual. Why do so many people not want to murder (since you brought up the topic). Why would you care about the life of another person, presuming you could get away with it?
So utterly incorrect. Selection works on populations. Individuals do not evolve, populations do.
Murder is not good for the individual human. We live in societies, we are social animals. Murders attract attention, come with the near inevitability of extremely negative consequences, none of which are good for the propagation of our genes. This is not true with him or me situations. Which is why our society developed a self-defense caveat.
And be careful. You are intimating that the only reason you don't murder is that you don't think you'd get away with it.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join! --->There's an app and everything!<---
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RE: Answers needed
June 25, 2015 at 11:20 pm
(June 25, 2015 at 11:09 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: 1. Not so far as I've seen or experienced.
2. I don't know. Claiming to have knowledge of something which you objectively don't is the height of absurdity and pomposity.
3. My life has the purpose I assign to it. I have a short stay here, so I choose to participate in things that make me happy with people that make me happy and safe, trying to enjoy all the moments that I have. I fail regularly at this latter part while at work.
4. People suffer because there are a lot of arbitrary events that occur that affect humanity negatively. People suffer because other people are greedy or lack empathy.
5. There is no evidence of life after death. I didn't experience life before birth, I assume I'll return to that state.
6. Yes. Society teaches us an ever changing set of mores. 60 years ago, these white ladies were seen as moral to their societies as they stalked and nearly lynched a 15 year old girl who was guilty of the crime of seeking an education with amongst their children. Today, we see that as despicable. Society taught you that, certainly a god didn't, and especially not the vile character that inhabits your holy book.
7. This is a slimy question. What is your definition of truth? Is it "Truth" with a capital "T?" Or is it just a question of whether humans can know true things? If the latter, then yes.
Good news!
Atheism is not a position that encompasses any stance on the origin of life or consciousness! So, you see, you now have no problems with atheism. Glad I could help.
Thanks! How does atheism not have to do with the origin of life? An atheist believes that the earth came into being without a god. From my viewpoint, God is a necessary part of creation, given the complexity of cellular life ("irreducible complexity") and the absence of intermediary species.
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