Open Letter To Christians

[Randy Carson]

You're totally right. The amount of time some Christians spend demonising homosexuals is entirely disproportionate to what their book says. As I explained, the story of Sodom isn't about homosexuality, so that leaves one puny reference in the middle of the OT (which we don't follow now, remember?). It's mentioned about the same number of times as eating shellfish and wearing clothing weaved from two fabrics.

And even then, this verse can be reasonably interpreted to mean sodomy, but not homosexuality. The Christians involved either can't or won't understand the difference.

Perhaps the reason Christians spend a disproportionate amount of time addressing homosexuality is because the media (movies and television especially) spends a disproportionate amount of time promoting homosexuality.

Considering the fact that less than 5% of the population is actually gay, the percentage of gay characters appearing in television shows and movies is often far more than the 5% number would suggest for realism.

[Randy Carson]

So, the Holocaust, the Black Plague, the Great Famine in Ireland, the Armenian Genocide and any number of horrible events did not anger  your god enough to return to earth. Yet the fact that two men can legally marry is the tipping point that makes him want to destroy a large portion of humankind?

Holocaust
Black Plague
Great Famine
Armenian Genocice
etc

All horrible events to be sure.

Tell me, nope, which of these things - which produced great suffering - would automatically endanger the immortal soul of one caught up in it?

[Randy Carson]

Randy, that verse does not say that god punished Sodom for homosexuality. You are reading into the text. The bible is clear why Sodom was punished.

From Ezekiel 16

…49"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. 50"Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it.

Bible god punished the people of Sodom because they didn't help the poor.

Have you actually read Genesis 19 in its entirety?

2 Peter 2:7-8
7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)—

"Depraved conduct"? Is that how we normally refer to indifference to the poor?

Sodom's offenses before God were MANY. Homosexuality was only part of the problem.

[The Valkyrie]

So, the Holocaust, the Black Plague, the Great Famine in Ireland, the Armenian Genocide and any number of horrible events did not anger  your god enough to return to earth. Yet the fact that two men can legally marry is the tipping point that makes him want to destroy a large portion of humankind?

Holocaust
Black Plague
Great Famine
Armenian Genocice
etc

All horrible events to be sure.

Tell me, nope, which of these things - which produced great suffering - would automatically endanger the immortal soul of one caught up in it?

None because you KNOW atheists don't accept a claim that a soul exists.

[Randy Carson]

Holocaust
Black Plague
Great Famine
Armenian Genocice
etc

All horrible events to be sure.

Tell me, nope, which of these things - which produced great suffering - would automatically endanger the immortal soul of one caught up in it?

None because you KNOW atheists don't accept a claim that a soul exists.

Not relevant.

First, atheists don't accept a claim that God exists, either. Consequently, citing the holocaust, etc. as evidence that God was not cited to anger is meaningless.

Second, if, for the sake of argument, you grant that God DOES exist, then you must also grant that He will behave in God-like ways and not in "Nope-like" ways. IOW, you can't say, "Well, God must not exist because He doesn't act like I want Him to act." If He exists, then He acts in ways that beyond our ways. Which includes being concerned about eternity and not about our fleeting moments on this earth.

So, again, don't argue that God must not exist because He does not act as you, mere human, might act.

[Godscreated]

Could be that you all should remember what God did in Egypt, He allowed the hardhearted Pharaoh to do as he pleased, then God had His turn at demonstrating that to defy Him brings a cost to the defiant. God said He will allow the world start spiraling down quicker, to bring an end to this world for His peoples sake. Are you absolutely sure you've not jumped into the spiral.

GC

I don't think you remember the phaoroh story very well; god didn't "allow" the phaoroh to do anything, he actively hardened phaoroh's heart so that he couldn't obey and god got to show off. Given that, how are you so sure gay marriage isn't just god hungry for a brag again?

I'm the one who remembers it very well and was actually waiting for someone to make this mistake, I knew sooner or later someone who didn't know the scriptures would stumble over their own pride. Pharaoh refused many times on his own accord, God gave him the chance to do as God asked but he thought being a god himself he could defy the only true God. When Pharaoh got to this point God did harden his heart to teach him who this God he was trying to defy really was. You can be assured God's power will be shown again and those who have defied Him will understand what Pharaoh went through.

GC

[Thumpalumpacus]

Cinjin FYI- the God of the bible did NOT without disclaimer, promise to grant any request made to Him.
Where did you get that idea?
For the same reason you can't just type any set of numbers into a telephone and expect to connect up to home,
there is a similar reason why some prayers are answered and a whole bunch are not.
The cause of failure is found in any mirror.

What a shame that such a Dear Leader could not even lead his own flock to himself.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Christians know so little of their own book that they don't realize that no sodomy happened in Sodom, except perhaps what would have happened to the virgin daughters offered up for rape, an act that went unpunished. The townspeople allegedly wanted to "lie with Angels" of no specific gender.

rob-

You ought to read scripture yourself before commenting upon it. And no, quoting "evilbible" doesn't count.

Genesis 19:1-9

19 The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. 2 “My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.”

“No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.”

3 But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate. 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

6 Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7 and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

9 “Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.

Q: Why did Lot insist that the visitors not spend the night in the square?
A: Because Lot knew the visitors would be raped.

Q: Why does the scripture say that "all the men...of Sodom" demand that Lot turn the visitors over to them?
A: Because the Sodomites wanted to have sex with them.

Q: Did the men of Sodom know that the visitors were actually angels from God and not men?
A: No, the Sodomites believed that they were men and that they would be able to rape them.

Q: How did the Sodomites react when Lot offered his own daughters instead of the visitors?
A: The Sodomites preferred sodomy to natural intercourse with women.

Bonus Question

Q: Why did God utterly destroy the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah?
A: Because He is righteous and holy and just. The sins of those cities cried out to heaven for punishment.

What a pity that you cannot be bothered to teach your fellow Christian Huggy about inference.

[Godscreated]

Could be that you all should remember what God did in Egypt, He allowed the hardhearted Pharaoh to do as he pleased, then God had His turn at demonstrating that to defy Him brings a cost to the defiant. God said He will allow the world start spiraling down quicker, to bring an end to this world for His peoples sake. Are you absolutely sure you've not jumped into the spiral.

GC

All of which is just to say God is a bad ass and can mess you up.  Still doesn't convince me that Drich has got God's message right.  I remain unconvinced that the bible is even a relevant source.  If God exists, He won't be answerable for the choices your lot makes regarding the bible and 'His word'.  You guys aren't really more faithful than anyone else, you just believe more adamantly that you are right.

What it says is that God will punish the ones who defy Him and would bring harm to His people.

GC

[Thumpalumpacus]

"Depraved conduct"? Is that how we normally refer to indifference to the poor?

One is left to assume that indifference to the poor is, by your lights, is not depraved. I personally think that indifference to the poor is morally corrupt. You apparently don't. Explain your position.