Calling it into question...

[Ben Davis]

Hi pops,

The Lord is nature and can be seen everywhere in everything

So you're some sort of pantheist or deist then?

You are right it is about logic and common sense. you people act like everything is here for your pleasure. Life is a battle, but people like you aren't even fighting. You take lack of proper upbringing and turn it into unconditional acceptance of everything as if some shit isn't wrong , then bitch and moan becouse you have no direction. You don't ever wonder why so many are so miserable? The ones that aren't miserable are ignorant.

Sorry, who are you addressing this to? All atheists? Because you misrepresent me in a most dismissive and insulting way! An apology is due for your crass and unrepresentative generalisation.

The morons that lack the capacity to take the ancient texts as lessons...

...are the biblical fundamentalists. Very few atheists, in the Western hemisphere at least, expect literalist interpretations of religious texts because that's not the way religions manifest here, typically. That said, I have seen it happen once or twice and I've criticised such arguments in exactly the same way I would jump on fundamentalism.

It isn't some dude with a beard floatin around waiting to step on you when you fuck up. Get that portrayal out of your mind.

That's your interpretation. Many other theists would disagree with you. Certainly 'the big paternal beard in the sky' is the common imagery used in Europe.

You can consider the Lord the creation of all good things.

I don't believe that there is any such 'lord' so I won't consider it as anything, thanks very much.

Some things in nature are not good for us exactly but that doesn't mean that God is out to get you. Bad shit happens. It is part of nature.

If you believe in an omni-everything god, responsible for creating everything, it necessarily follows that God put 'bad shit' out there deliberately. It may not be personal but such a god would certainly be responsible for unimaginable suffering & grief and should be held accountable for its actions.

There is no wonder why you can't see. It's because you refuse.

Or might it be because there's nothing to see?

Nature doesn't usually intervien with nature. Life is amazing. It is awesome and terrible.

So you don't believe in a benevolent god then?

The truth is that the Lord and the unspeakebke are not the same thing so all the negative shit that you foolishly associate with God can be associated with evil which isn't the Lord. We are all connected to each other, the Lord, and Lucifer if you must need a name for it. If it was possible to do without pride, you could say that we are God and Satan because they are a part of us.

But if the Lord is responsible for creating everything, it must be also responsible for evil. There's no escaping that, no matter how hard you try to reallocate accountability.

With that being said, the evidence is everywhere.

If that were true, it would be provided and verified. Since that hasn't happened, in spite of repeated requests for it, your assertion can be dismissed.

You can swallow your misguided pride and slowly work towards belief and eventually Faith in which you will have your personal proof, or just wait till you die, at which time you will surely, finally have it.

'Personal' proof is no proof at all. Once I'm dead, there's no verifiable evidence to suggest that I'll have any experience of anything.

The Lord does love his creation , all of it.

Given your previous statements regarding 'the bad shit', this is contradictory. Which is it? A god that begets suffering and misery or a god who loves his creation? You can't have it both ways.

So if that is the case then how can you expect it to let us destroy it just because we are too blind to see what we are doing.

Once again, an attempt to shift accountability for 'the bad shit' away from your god.

If you want evidence simply look up on a clear nite.

If you want to see that I am actually really close to the truth then read the Sumer texts, Book of Enoch, the Old Testament, or Qur'an.

I have and such reading clearly reinforces the idea that gods are man-made concepts. Why would you think that they would lead me to your conclusions?

Or you can just think that you know better than civilizations that were here way before us, and who were much more in tune with reality, instinct, gut feeling, intuition, and common sense.

What makes you think that they were 'better' than us in those ways?

Oh yeah, all that shit you said was in the Bible, man wrote that shit. And we all have good and evil in us.

By your god's design?

So even though the ancients had good intent, they were misguided at times if evil is a power that encompasses all negative things including thoughts and actions then it is easy to see how he would misconstrue all he could grasp in order to do what is being done right now, by you. The Lord will not abolish shit. It is up to us who are failing miserably because of our divided, selfish ways.

#batteredspousesyndrome

[Joods]

Honestly, it is the greatest piece of FICTION ever written.

I do hope this is sarcasm Judi! LotR was way better! Much more believable too.

I LOVE LOTR. We have all the movies and the Hobbit movies that are out as well.

Second breakfasts should be mandatory.

[Joods]

Thank you Ben, for willing to respond to all that drivel. I must say, there were many accusations in it that I would have called into question, but you have done an excellent job of saving me from that sort of torture. I'm going to give you some rep love for that!

[popsthebuilder]

Hi pops,

The Lord is nature and can be seen everywhere in everything

So you're some sort of pantheist or deist then?

You are right it is about logic and common sense. you people act like everything is here for your pleasure. Life is a battle, but people like you aren't even fighting. You take lack of proper upbringing and turn it into unconditional acceptance of everything as if some shit isn't wrong , then bitch and moan becouse you have no direction. You don't ever wonder why so many are so miserable? The ones that aren't miserable are ignorant.

Sorry, who are you addressing this to? All atheists? Because you misrepresent me in a most dismissive and insulting way! An apology is due for your crass and unrepresentative generalisation.

The morons that lack the capacity to take the ancient texts as lessons...

...are the biblical fundamentalists. Very few atheists, in the Western hemisphere at least, expect literalist interpretations of religious texts because that's not the way religions manifest here, typically. That said, I have seen it happen once or twice and I've criticised such arguments in exactly the same way I would jump on fundamentalism.

It isn't some dude with a beard floatin around waiting to step on you when you fuck up. Get that portrayal out of your mind.

That's your interpretation. Many other theists would disagree with you. Certainly 'the big paternal beard in the sky' is the common imagery used in Europe.

You can consider the Lord the creation of all good things.

I don't believe that there is any such 'lord' so I won't consider it as anything, thanks very much.

Some things in nature are not good for us exactly but that doesn't mean that God is out to get you. Bad shit happens. It is part of nature.

If you believe in an omni-everything god, responsible for creating everything, it necessarily follows that God put 'bad shit' out there deliberately. It may not be personal but such a god would certainly be responsible for unimaginable suffering & grief and should be held accountable for its actions.

There is no wonder why you can't see. It's because you refuse.

Or might it be because there's nothing to see?

Nature doesn't usually intervien with nature. Life is amazing. It is awesome and terrible.

So you don't believe in a benevolent god then?

The truth is that the Lord and the unspeakebke are not the same thing so all the negative shit that you foolishly associate with God can be associated with evil which isn't the Lord. We are all connected to each other, the Lord, and Lucifer if you must need a name for it. If it was possible to do without pride, you could say that we are God and Satan because they are a part of us.

But if the Lord is responsible for creating everything, it must be also responsible for evil. There's no escaping that, no matter how hard you try to reallocate accountability.

With that being said, the evidence is everywhere.

If that were true, it would be provided and verified. Since that hasn't happened, in spite of repeated requests for it, your assertion can be dismissed.

You can swallow your misguided pride and slowly work towards belief and eventually Faith in which you will have your personal proof, or just wait till you die, at which time you will surely, finally have it.

'Personal' proof is no proof at all. Once I'm dead, there's no verifiable evidence to suggest that I'll have any experience of anything.

The Lord does love his creation , all of it.

Given your previous statements regarding 'the bad shit', this is contradictory. Which is it? A god that begets suffering and misery or a god who loves his creation? You can't have it both ways.

So if that is the case then how can you expect it to let us destroy it just because we are too blind to see what we are doing.

Once again, an attempt to shift accountability for 'the bad shit' away from your god.

If you want evidence simply look up on a clear nite.

If you want to see that I am actually really close to the truth then read the Sumer texts, Book of Enoch, the Old Testament, or Qur'an.

I have and such reading clearly reinforces the idea that gods are man-made concepts. Why would you think that they would lead me to your conclusions?

Or you can just think that you know better than civilizations that were here way before us, and who were much more in tune with reality, instinct, gut feeling, intuition, and common sense.

What makes you think that they were 'better' than us in those ways?

Oh yeah, all that shit you said was in the Bible, man wrote that shit. And we all have good and evil in us.

By your god's design?

So even though the ancients had good intent, they were misguided at times if evil is a power that encompasses all negative things including thoughts and actions then it is easy to see how he would misconstrue all he could grasp in order to do what is being done right now, by you. The Lord will not abolish shit. It is up to us who are failing miserably because of our divided, selfish ways.

#batteredspousesyndrome

Firstly, I apologize for stereotyping.

That being said.
As hard as it is for me to admitted simply because I will loose some; the merciful, yet righteous Lord I speak of is the One Lord, but is not solely responsible for bad things. There must be balance. There is another cause for real negative. And that negative is a power. A lesser one no doubt.
There is also another force in the known Universe that is chaos. It can be described very little by me due to it's nature. It is disorder.

[pocaracas]

pops, one question: ho who you know all that about that Lord?
And how do you know that we will know anything after we die?
How did you come to be in possession of such crucial information?

[robvalue]

I must have missed the memo too.

When you're making outrageous claims, I think it is much better to preface them with, "I believe that..." rather than reeling them off as facts.

[Joods]

The Lord is nature and can be seen everywhere in everything

Please show me scientific proof of this assumption.

You are right it is about logic and common sense. you people act like everything is here for your pleasure.

For starters, "you people" is really not a cool thing to say because there was only ME creating this thread. In this thread, I do not speak on behalf of my atheist brothers and sisters. Be very careful about treading in water that may drown you. Second of all, it's a pretty narcissistic thing to accuse "us people" of thinking that everything is here for our pleasure. Please provide credible references to prove that.

Life is a battle, but people like you aren't even fighting.

You obviously know NOTHING of my life, my struggles or what I "fight".

You take lack of proper upbringing and turn it into unconditional acceptance of everything as if some shit isn't wrong , then bitch and moan becouse you have no direction. You don't ever wonder why so many are so miserable?

Sweetheart, any upbringing I had is something that YOU do not have firsthand knowledge of. Again, more assumptions made by you, someone who hasn't even been on these forums for an entire month, know NOTHING about. Furthermore, my direction is just fine thank you. I don't need a magical sky daddy to have morals or direction. If anything I was MORE miserable when I was a believer. I am free now. Free to think and choose and not have to worry about kissing the ass of an imaginary friend in the hopes that I'll get into a magical place called heaven, that no one has ever been able to prove exists.

The ones that aren't miserable are ignorant.

Is this your opinion or are you stating a fact?

The morons that lack the capacity to take the ancient texts as lessons and instead try to discredit them by implying that they are first account records of actual events in every case simply don't want to believe in anything else.

Ahh but you think it perfectly acceptable to cherry pick which parts of the OT you find totally acceptable to apply to the present day. Sorry dude, you don't get to lecture me, an atheist, who doesn't believe in your god or your book anyway, about a few verses here and there and then blatantly say, oh but they are just lessons that really aren't real because they aren't first account records of actual events. If you are going to believe in your bible and you are going to say that there are lessons to be learned from it then you have to believe in ALL parts of your bible. Even the ones you don't like. Such as your god committing the first ever act of genocide to people he supposedly loved. Because well, fuck creation.

It isn't some dude with a beard floatin around waiting to step on you when you fuck up. Get that portrayal out of your mind.

Where ever did I say that this was the impression I had in my mind. Your bible presents your Abrahamic god in a horrendous light. He is portrayed as a Misogynist, narcissist, psychopathic, slave approving, fucked up law making, evil, evil, evil thing that if you don't fear him and do as he says, he will send you to the bowels of internal damnation. But... But... butttttttt.... he's a loving god. If that is love - no thanks. I don't want any part of that shit. Oh yeah... and he also doesn't want you to see him. The movie The Wizard Of OZ comes to mind here. Very convenient stuff.

You can consider the Lord the creation of all good things. Some things in nature are not good for us exactly but that doesn't mean that God is out to get you.

Yeah.. tell that to all the starving children in Africa. Tell that to all the children who suffer from abuse. Tell that to cancer patients. Tell that to people born without body parts.

Bad shit happens. It is part of nature.

If your god was all powerful and all knowing, and omnipotent, then he could correct all of that by removing the "bad shit" from "nature".

There is no wonder why you can't see. It's because you refuse.

Please show me proof of the existence of god.

Nature doesn't usually intervien with nature.

Incorrect. Nature most certainly does intervene with itself. There are thousands of examples all around you. Some are weather related, some are survival of species related, some are catastrophic event related - you know earthquakes, volcanic eruptions.

The truth is that the Lord and the unspeakebke are not the same thing so all the negative shit that you foolishly associate with God can be associated with evil which isn't the Lord.

Okay. I gotta stop you right here because that was more bullshit than I could handle. Your Abrahamic god IS the very essence of evil. Read your goddamned bible and you will see plenty of references in there. The story of Noah is one. Moses is another. What an asshole your god must be if he provided transportation for Noah, but couldn't do the same for Moses and his people. What a bastard. And asking one of his devoted to kill off their own son, just to please him? That one really chaps my ass because in this day and age, THAT would be considered premeditated MURDER. But according to you - god isn't evil.

The Lord will not abolish shit.

Because he is not all powerful and doesn't exist. Thank you for making my point.

---

It's good to question. That way you can see when you are being manipulated.

It's bad to assume. Sadly, you can't even see how much your religion has brainwashed you.

Your arguments are weak, at best and are nothing more than accusations. Please, if you're going to jump into a battle of wits, at least bring something tangible to the table to work with other than unprovable opinions and pathetic attempts to shame someone who is not brainwashed by your so-called religion or your gawd.

[Joods]

Hi pops,

So you're some sort of pantheist or deist then?

Sorry, who are you addressing this to? All atheists? Because you misrepresent me in a most dismissive and insulting way! An apology is due for your crass and unrepresentative generalisation.

...are the biblical fundamentalists. Very few atheists, in the Western hemisphere at least, expect literalist interpretations of religious texts because that's not the way religions manifest here, typically. That said, I have seen it happen once or twice and I've criticised such arguments in exactly the same way I would jump on fundamentalism.

That's your interpretation. Many other theists would disagree with you. Certainly 'the big paternal beard in the sky' is the common imagery used in Europe.

I don't believe that there is any such 'lord' so I won't consider it as anything, thanks very much.

If you believe in an omni-everything god, responsible for creating everything, it necessarily follows that God put 'bad shit' out there deliberately. It may not be personal but such a god would certainly be responsible for unimaginable suffering & grief and should be held accountable for its actions.

Or might it be because there's nothing to see?

So you don't believe in a benevolent god then?

But if the Lord is responsible for creating everything, it must be also responsible for evil. There's no escaping that, no matter how hard you try to reallocate accountability.

If that were true, it would be provided and verified. Since that hasn't happened, in spite of repeated requests for it, your assertion can be dismissed.

'Personal' proof is no proof at all. Once I'm dead, there's no verifiable evidence to suggest that I'll have any experience of anything.

Given your previous statements regarding 'the bad shit', this is contradictory. Which is it? A god that begets suffering and misery or a god who loves his creation? You can't have it both ways.

Once again, an attempt to shift accountability for 'the bad shit' away from your god.



I have and such reading clearly reinforces the idea that gods are man-made concepts. Why would you think that they would lead me to your conclusions?

What makes you think that they were 'better' than us in those ways?

By your god's design?

#batteredspousesyndrome

Firstly, I apologize for stereotyping.

That being said.
As hard as it is for me to admitted simply because I will loose some; the merciful, yet righteous Lord I speak of is the One Lord, but is not solely responsible for bad things. There must be balance. There is another cause for real negative. And that negative is a power. A lesser one no doubt.
There is also another force in the known Universe that is chaos. It can be described very little by me due to it's nature. It is disorder.

*boldened by me for relevance*

Damn...  ten questions were asked of you and answered: ZERO.

How about actually manning the fuck up and answering the questions asked since you wanted to be such an expert on everyone's lives (especially atheist's lives) instead of blameshifting your bullshit onto something else.

Please, get off my thread if you can't bring useful facts and relevant comments to the fucking table.

[Napoléon]

Firstly, I apologize for stereotyping.

That being said.
As hard as it is for me to admitted simply because I will loose some; the merciful, yet righteous Lord I speak of is the One Lord, but is not solely responsible for bad things. There must be balance. There is another cause for real negative. And that negative is a power. A lesser one no doubt.
There is also another force in the known Universe that is chaos. It can be described very little by me due to it's nature. It is disorder.

I christen you poops and you are henceforth banished from my monitor with the almighty ignorus maximus button.

[Joods]

But Nap... don't you wanna see what his responses are to my asking for verifiable proof of what he says? You're gonna miss out on all that fun!

Oh wait.. I can quote him for you ha ha ha ha.