Atheism the unscientific belief (part one, two, and three)

[Little Rik]

Here's the thing.  When I move my arm, nerves connected to my muscle fire causing the muscles to contract.  That nerve is connected to another nerve and so on up into the brain itself.  If the consciousness which causes my arm to move is immaterial, someplace in the brain it has to connect up to the very material nerves.  At that point there will be nerves magically firing without any material cause evident.  So your claim that the consciousness which moves the arm is non-material amounts to a claim that someplace in the brain, a literal miracle is occurring: nerves firing without any apparent input.  Unless you've got evidence of that, you've got nothing.  Parsimony says that if the material brain is sufficient for the creation of mind - and it appears it is - there's no reason to add speculative "other forces" that we have no evidence of.

Yog.  
You got a similar problem as the Nutter.
Both of you try to formulate and express thoughts that are beyond your capacity to understand.
You need to start with good foundation and for foundations in this case i mean to understand how the mind works.
I already explained you how the onion mind works.
There are layers and layers of mind.
From the outer mind to the inner mind or the I or consciousness.
The problem with most people is that they can not go deep into the real I so they have no choices but to use the outer mind which doesn't really help much and with this limited knowledge they think they know everything.
As a driver is inside a vehicle also a consciousness is inside a body as life goes on.
This being stuck to a body comport that you are in charge of that body.
You give orders, you are the boss.
You don't need to be material-physical to make that body work.
Why should you?
There is no need for.
But let us go back to the onion mind.
The inner layer of the mind is 100% pure and abstract in the sense that is not physical but as the layers get more and more externalised toward the outer mind there is less and less purity and the differences
between outer mind and the brain become more and more similar so the connection become possible.
The subtle (pure consciousness) get connect to the material-physical part because in between we got like a bridge and that bridge is made of the external layers of the mind.  
In this way the pure consciousness connect to the material-physical part without being physical itself.
This is how the system works but i really doubt you can understand.  

[Little Rik]

Mate.  
I couldn't agree more Stim.  
You are a real inspiration to me through these difficult years.  
Your thoughts are like royal jelly.  

I guess you refer to those who say......the consciousness is a product of the brain?  
Do you?  

I refer to anyone who makes a positive claim while trying to shuck the burden of proof. I realise that you have far more ego than education, but I hope that even you are not that stupid not to realise that for every accusatory finger you point at others, three are pointing at you.

Look Stim.
What i know is that if here would be a neutral and impartial board to judge i would have your 130 reputation and you would have my 3 reputation.
No kidding mate.  

[Cyberman]

Oh I see - conspiracy. You can't address the ball, so you attack the player. Classy, rik.

[Little Rik]

Oh I see - conspiracy. You can't address the ball, so you attack the player. Classy, rik.

The problem lie with the referee that side with the opposite team.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMYUuoxInB4

[SofaKingHigh]

Oh I see - conspiracy. You can't address the ball, so you attack the player. Classy, rik.

The problem lie with the referee that side with the opposite team.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMYUuoxInB4

No, the problem is, to put it succinctly, you are a tremendous thundercunt.

[Little Rik]

The problem lie with the referee that side with the opposite team.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMYUuoxInB4

No, the problem is, to put it succinctly, you are a tremendous thundercunt.

Let us have an independent referee and see who is right and who is wrong.  

[Whateverist]

After reviewing all the posts carefully I'm going to have to side with Rik on this one.

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[Rik, your check truly had better be in the mail as you claim.]

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[Ben Davis]

I can't believe that this thread is still going. Nearly 100 pages, too! Rik, if nothing else, I congratulate you on managing to waste so much of everyone's time.

You need to start with good foundation and for foundations in this case i mean to understand how the mind works.

Physician, heal thyself.

I already explained you how the onion mind works.
There are layers and layers of mind.
From the outer mind to the inner mind or the I or consciousness.

Nope, there are 2 'layers', the autonomic and the voluntary. You have a modicum of control over the voluntary responses (less than you might think) but have no control over the autonomic. Some people talk about 'conscious' and 'subconscious' within the voluntary functions but neurologically, the subconscious is a series of autonomic functions of which we can be voluntarily aware. It appears that your understanding of 'how the mind works' is in direct conflict with the current, expert and demonstrably factual knowledge.

The problem with most people is that they can not go deep into the real I so they have no choices but to use the outer mind which doesn't really help much and with this limited knowledge they think they know everything.

That sentence means nothing.

As a driver is inside a vehicle also a consciousness is inside a body as life goes on.

This is such a bad analogy. I'll try and work with it, since it's the best you have to offer.
We're not anything like 'drivers' because we're not separate entities to the 'vehicle'; 'we' are what it feels like to be the car in operation.

This being stuck to a body comport that you are in charge of that body.
You give orders, you are the boss.

We can only 'give orders' to our voluntary functions. The rest works by itself, as long as it gets nervous signals.

You don't need to be material-physical to make that body work.

Well, you contradict your own analogy with this statement: if the driver isn't physical, how does steering work?

Why should you? There is no need for.

...except steering. And stick-shift...

But let us go back to the onion mind.
The inner layer of the mind is 100% pure and abstract in the sense that is not physical but as the layers get more and more externalised toward the outer mind there is less and less purity and the differences

Nope, couldn't be more wrong. The autonomic functions are the least mysterious, least abstract ones as they're all about simple, neurochemical & nervous responses. As an example, capillary function is autonomic and without it, your fingers would fall off.

between outer mind and the brain become more and more similar so the connection become possible.
The subtle (pure consciousness) get connect to the material-physical part because in between we got like a bridge and that bridge is made of the external layers of the mind.  
In this way the pure consciousness connect to the material-physical part without being physical itself.

Once again, you contradict yourself. You describe a physical bridge but then say that the bridge isn't physical. You, sir, are making this up as you go along.

This is how the system works but i really doubt you can understand.  

Evidence, please. If this is really how the system works, you must be able to provide evidence that completely overturns the best scientific explanations of neurology. Until you can show it, you can't claim that it's knowledge of any kind.

[Homeless Nutter]

[...]This is how the system works [...]

That's a cool story. I don't suppose you have any evidence for any of the numerous bold assertions you made there? No? I didn't think so... 

Keep trying. Maybe if you repeat the same magical bullsh*t enough times - it will become true?...

[robvalue]

I'm glad trials don't work like this.

Prosecution: "I sense that he did the murder. All the energy flows through the possibilities and must collect in his spirit. The guilt is a twirling spiral from which he cannot escape."

Judge: "Guilty. 50 years in jail. Time for morning tea."

Defence: "But..."

Judge: "GUILTY."