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Birmingham Quran fragments older than Muhammad...lol
August 31, 2015 at 12:00 pm
(This post was last modified: August 31, 2015 at 12:10 pm by ReptilianPeon.)
Oldest Quran found predates Muhammad after Carbon testing... How can the Quran predate Muhammad? All of the Fascist Da'i out there were jumping on the bandwagon and saying how stupid Atheists and Christians were and now they have been made to look very stupid. So now we'll be inevitably hear people cry about how "Carbon dating has issues", etc even though Carbon dating is fine if it agrees with your narrow world view.
This even better than I could have hoped! The wheels were already falling off the Dawah train, so to speak, and what a way to top off the last seven days. Hamza's love for Ashley Madison was just the start of a week of damning revelations it seems.
EDIT: I know the Daily Mail is crap, but I actually found out about the news on Tom Hollad's Twitter feed, where you can see various post about the subject.
The 'Birmingham Koran' fragment that could shake Islam after carbon-dating suggests it is OLDER than the Prophet Muhammad
(I'm not a fan of the Daily Mail by the way)
Anthor article, but from the Australian.
Hamza once said that even if they found an earlier Quran (before the death of Muhammad) it wouldn't make a difference. And this Quran is in fact so early that Muhammad wasn't even born yet! Wow....
Here's the source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YPsMpegNDY
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RE: Birmingham Quran fragments older than Muhammad...lol
August 31, 2015 at 12:04 pm
Yeah, well - it is "the Daily Mail", so I'll withhold my enthusiasm for the time being.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Birmingham Quran fragments older than Muhammad...lol
August 31, 2015 at 12:08 pm
I found out about it from Tom Hollad's Twitter feed. He was apparently on the BBC to talk about it.
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RE: Birmingham Quran fragments older than Muhammad...lol
August 31, 2015 at 12:13 pm
(This post was last modified: August 31, 2015 at 12:18 pm by Homeless Nutter.)
If this checks out - it will be kinda cool. But I'm sure it won't change much. Muslim clerics will find ways to misinterpret, or discredit the findings in one way or another, enough to satisfy their - mostly uneducated - flock.
I mean - christian dumb-asses are still praying to the Rag of Turin.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Birmingham Quran fragments older than Muhammad...lol
August 31, 2015 at 12:14 pm
(This post was last modified: August 31, 2015 at 12:17 pm by Minimalist.)
Even the Mail's story contains a link to the original Times story. That seems to be a subscription service, though so here is the full story from The Australian.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...Nq2Vo5MdGA
Quote:Keith Small, from the University of Oxford’s Bodleian Library, said that carbon dating was not always reliable and the dates announced last month applied not to the ink but to the parchment. The provenance of the text is also unclear and its calligraphic script is characteristic of later inscriptions.
Yet Dr Small believes that the dates are probably right and may raise broad questions about the origins of Islam. “If the [radio carbon] dates apply to the parchment and the ink, and the dates across the entire range apply, then the Koran — or at least portions of it — predates Mohammed, and moves back the years that an Arabic literary culture is in place well into the 500s,” he said.
“This gives more ground to what have been peripheral views of the Koran’s genesis, like that Mohammed and his early followers used a text that was already in existence and shaped it to fit their own political and theological agenda, rather than Mohammed receiving a revelation from heaven.
The discrepancy between the ink and the parchment also suggests that this could be a very clever fraud along the lines of the Jehoash Tablet or the Temple Pomegranate.
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RE: Birmingham Quran fragments older than Muhammad...lol
August 31, 2015 at 12:24 pm
I'm not sure why it would be a fraud. Can you elaborate? I'm confused.
Even before this new, earlier, date the Quran fragments were still older than Uthman. Funnily enough, I saw comments of people claiming they could read the text just by looking at the photographs and that it was exactly like the Quran today. This new date will expose a lot of hypocrites and speed up the death of yet another religion.
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RE: Birmingham Quran fragments older than Muhammad...lol
August 31, 2015 at 12:26 pm
No, no, NO goddamn it!
Allah sent an angel to a cave in the middle-ages to the Middle East, to converse with a barbaric, kid-lovin' war lord! Revealed all SORTS of juicy tidbits about what Allah wants and doesn't want! Enough tidbits to fill a book! Duh!
No cave angel discussions, no Islam! And that can't be right....
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RE: Birmingham Quran fragments older than Muhammad...lol
August 31, 2015 at 12:30 pm
(This post was last modified: August 31, 2015 at 12:31 pm by Homeless Nutter.)
(August 31, 2015 at 12:26 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: No, no, NO goddamn it!
Allah sent an angel to a cave in the middle-ages to the Middle East, to converse with a barbaric, kid-lovin' war lord! Revealed all SORTS of juicy tidbits about what Allah wants and doesn't want! Enough tidbits to fill a book! Duh!
[...]
A book that wouldn't be written until years after the prophet's death, because f*** literacy.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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RE: Birmingham Quran fragments older than Muhammad...lol
August 31, 2015 at 12:36 pm
(August 31, 2015 at 12:30 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: (August 31, 2015 at 12:26 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: No, no, NO goddamn it!
Allah sent an angel to a cave in the middle-ages to the Middle East, to converse with a barbaric, kid-lovin' war lord! Revealed all SORTS of juicy tidbits about what Allah wants and doesn't want! Enough tidbits to fill a book! Duh!
[...]
A book that wouldn't be written until years after the prophet's death, because f*** literacy.
Oral history, desert dwellers have great memories, oh look! something shiny! yada, yada, yada....
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RE: Birmingham Quran fragments older than Muhammad...lol
August 31, 2015 at 12:46 pm
So... the manuscript's dating error bars can go to prior the man's alleged birth? Before the angel's visit?
Manuscript: 568 - 645 CE <~> 606 +/- 39 CE.
Mohammad: 570 - 632 CE, visited by the angel at the age of 40, so 610 CE, and starting to preach it 3 years later, 613 CE.
It could also be from after his death... or from during his adult lifetime.
This speculation is meaningless. Anything is possible within that error bar!
But it's fun to hear muslims discussing of the possibility that the text was in circulation before the "revelation"...
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