Where is heaven located? Also, why does God care about homo sapiens?

[Foxaèr]

Oh, look, I wrote a supernatural novel and everyone should believe its contents as true because it has a hero that sacrificed himself for the world.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

I agree with Catholic Lady and Drich and I know other Christians who believe the same, heaven is another dimension that exist within this dimension, it explains IMO how God and the angels can move into this dimension, it explains how Christ was able to disappear after His resurrection on a couple of occasions that were recorded in the Bible.

GC

That sounds like a talking donkey.

[Bad Wolf]

I agree with Catholic Lady and Drich and I know other Christians who believe the same, heaven is another dimension that exist within this dimension, it explains IMO how God and the angels can move into this dimension, it explains how Christ was able to disappear after His resurrection on a couple of occasions that were recorded in the Bible.

GC

It doesn't 'explain' anything.

[The Grand Nudger]

No, it's not up to me.  It's just my fucking guess.  If it was my list you'd see Unicorns.  Because unicorns would have been fucking awesome.  I mean fuck, lions just came to mind first because of the asshole cuntbag dentist.  I could have listed any number of animals.  Also the lion king is a fucking awesome movie.

And yeah, you did say something about getting help.  At least that's how I'm reading it:

"The success of the botfly, particularly the one that likes to lay it's eggs in human children's eyes, could imply that they have some pull upstairs that we, the suffering hosts, do not"  Pull kind of indicates help.

I see where you're getting the idea of help from now.  I suppose I could have used the word favor, or affinity.   I think, personally, that it would be hard to sell the idea that a god dislikes things like botflies, mosquitos, or beetles, or that they are somehow negatively valued or failing some test while simultaneously being so numerous and successful.  

Is it entirely impossible for you to consider that your list of harmful and beneficial this and thats may have nothing to do with any objective -or- divine designation...that it's more a reflection of your own value judgements?  I wonder whether a gazelle would put a lion on the list of beneficial things which get into gazelle heaven.....I would imagine, that if gazelles dreamt, lions are the stuff their nightmares are made of - more a candidate for the shadows that lurk in the pits of hell than cohabitants in eternal bliss.  Do you think that you might order your list differently, if you were a gazelle (or, for that matter, a mosquito)?  I'm almost certain that you would.  In fact....I'm almost certain that if you belonged to a different cultural/social/temporal set of humanity you'd order your list differently, no need to imagine yourself as a gazelle at all.  

Or, I suppose, all of that is irrelevant, and you really don't have anything to do with the list (or the heaven) you've imagined...your personal and entirely subjective value judgements haven't exerted any influence on the list you've "guessed" at......................... 

[Divinity]

I don't think you understand what a fucking guess is.

"It's possible you are wrong!"

Well no shit. Guesses are capable of being wrong. That's why they're fucking called guesses.

[The Grand Nudger]

I think we're still having two entirely different conversations.  I'm not really concerned with whether or not your list is "right" - being who I am, -by default- your list is wrong (there is no heaven, there is no earthly test, there is no list).  

I'm trying to have a discussion with you about where that list originates from, and how.....I'm trying to have a discussion about misattribution and projection.....not accuracy, lol. Even if there -were- a heaven, an earthly test, a list.....I don't think that you're actually touching on those things when you make your "guess". IOW, I don't think you're guessing at anything at all - I think that you're just expressing your own subjective value judgements - something you know very well..and so don't need to guess at. Capiche?

Have you given any thought to how your list might look if you were a gazelle, as I asked...or just a person from a different time and place, as I asked....or have you been so hung up with the implication that you might be wrong that this got lost in the shuffle? I think that the examples of lions and mosquitos is a great way to dive into that. As you've "guessed"..lions get in but mosquitos don't. You stated that the list isn't up to you, or cats wouldn;t be on it...but that's nonsense, you clearly have a positive value judgement of lions reltive to mosquitos, left up to you, to guess, lions are in, mosquitos are out...but why would a god make the same determination? Why would a god favor the lion over the mosquito? You;ve reference what is "harmful or beneficial" - but, as before..why would those terms mean the same thing to a god that they mean to you...and are you sure you've put even lions and mosquitos in the right categories based upon your own metrics? You mentioned that mosquitos are essentially useless, that if they all died they would quickly be replaced. Is this not also true of lions...and as lions have been disappearing isn;t that exactly what we've seen happen? Speaking of which, why -are- the lions disappearing whilst the mosquitos are not? Hell, we're trying to kill mosquitos off on purpose..the lions are mostly an accident.

What I'm trying to get at, is why you would even begin to attribute any of this to the divine -even as a guess- without first ruling out yourself? I don't know why you would think that your list would be even a rough approximation of a heavenly list (though I have opinions on why you might think that, I'd rather see what you come up with)..regardless of how accurate or inaccurate it may be, if there -is- a test, a list, a heaven.

[Divinity]

I think what you're misunderstanding is that I'm just making a guess. The question of the topic was "Why are humans special" My answer was "I don't think they really are, and I'm sure there'll be animals in heaven too." I've never really given it much thought as to what animals would go into heaven. (not even sure I'd call it 'heaven') I just made a guess in the moment to expand on the list. I said Fuck mosquitoes because mosquitoes are fuckers. They should be fucked. Not the enjoyable kind of fuck. The kind of fucked that people don't want to get.

[The Grand Nudger]

Again...I don't think that you're guessing at all, I -do- understand that this is how you've conceptualized whatever it is that you're doing.......and it doesn't matter much to me the contents of that list (I hate mosquitos myself, grew up in a swamp - hand me the keys to the fogging apparatus and I'll do my best to kill every last one).  It's the process by which you've -arrived- at that list, those contents, whatever they may be, and what you attribute all of this to that I think is much more interesting than whether or not you (or I..or anyone) likes mosquitos.

Do you disagree....is the question "do you like mosquitos" more interesting than the questions -

"how have you arrived at your heavenly list, whatever it may contain - and by what metrics....further, are those metrics in some way objectively verifiable, have you consistently applied them - and do they come from a position of knowledge or ignorance"

..?

Even more puzzling, as we've gone back and forth..I've begun to wonder..when you think about the divine, heaven, earthly tests etc - if the fabric of those thoughts is actually just whether or not you like mosquitos....rather than any of those other questions....if that's what the divine is to you, if that's what it means? I guess I sort of expect there to be more to it....for it to be less shallow. I expected you to have just a -tad- bit more invested into your thoughts on the matter of god, heaven, who gets in...and how.

[Divinity]

I think what you're missing is that my 'list' isn't even really a list. I listed the first animals to come to mind. I could have said "Zebras, Dung Beetles, and Llamas" or "Polar Bears, Raccoon, and Water Buffalo" or even "Dinosaurs, GIraffes, and Earthworms" Hell I could have said "The loch ness monster, godzilla, and those talking trees from Lord of the Rings"

I don't have any sort of list where I think "Yeah, this is getting an afterlife. Yes, not this one though."

I just don't think humans are special, and I think if we get an afterlife, animals could too. Fuck if I know. Hell maybe mosquitoes have their own heaven, where it's an all day special on O positive.

To put it simply: If I hadn't watched The Lion king with my granddaughter this past weekend, and I didn't remember that asshole dentist, I probably wouldn't have even listed Lion.

[The Grand Nudger]

Heaven is outside of space and time.  He cares about humans because we developed self awareness.  Other animals have also developed some level of self awareness.  Bottlenosed Dolphins for example.  That's not to say he doesn't care about animals that haven't developed self awareness.  I'm sure animals that haven't developed much awareness at all go to heaven too (not parasites or mosquitoes though.  Fuck mosquitoes.  I'm sure God hates them.  They're fucking terrible.) All the animals that aren't pests go to heaven too.  So humans are by no means special imo.  

I think of Earth as the Beta.  Everything in this world is just the test.  Not like a test of if you're good or bad, but a test to see if creations are 'beneficial' or 'harmful'.  Lions, dogs, cats, etc... they are beneficial.  Mosquitoes, parasites, they're harmful.  Heaven is the final product.

You don't have a list......?  May I please speak to that other person who posts under your handle, the one I began this discussion with 2 pages back? If I understand you right, what you're saying, is that you're not really saying what you've been saying. This is immensely disappointing, as what you're (apparently) not saying was pretty damned interesting.....whilst what you are saying, is...if I understand you right....essentially nothing?