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Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Christianity v
The watchmaker analogy

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The watchmaker analogy
ApeNotKillApe Offline
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#1
The watchmaker analogy
October 4, 2015 at 10:36 pm
Doesn't he notice the watch exactly because it's so out of place? Isn't it the intelligent design of the watch that makes it unnatural?
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Clueless Morgan Offline
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#2
RE: The watchmaker analogy
October 4, 2015 at 10:41 pm
Yes.

/thread
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ApeNotKillApe Offline
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#3
RE: The watchmaker analogy
October 4, 2015 at 10:46 pm (This post was last modified: October 4, 2015 at 10:46 pm by ApeNotKillApe.)
That's stupid.
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Clueless Morgan Offline
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#4
RE: The watchmaker analogy
October 4, 2015 at 11:15 pm
Indeed
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
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TaraJo Offline
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#5
RE: The watchmaker analogy
October 4, 2015 at 11:20 pm
(October 4, 2015 at 10:36 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Doesn't he notice the watch exactly because it's so out of place? Isn't it the intelligent design of the watch that makes it unnatural?

Define the word "unnatural" and I'll be able to answer that.

If by unnatural, you mean something that exists outside the natural world, the only thing I can think of that's unnatural is.... God, or any other supernatural being out there.
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ApeNotKillApe Offline
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#6
RE: The watchmaker analogy
October 4, 2015 at 11:24 pm
(October 4, 2015 at 11:20 pm)TaraJo Wrote:
(October 4, 2015 at 10:36 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Doesn't he notice the watch exactly because it's so out of place? Isn't it the intelligent design of the watch that makes it unnatural?

Define the word "unnatural" and I'll be able to answer that.

If by unnatural, you mean something that exists outside the natural world, the only thing I can think of that's unnatural is.... God, or any other supernatural being out there.

Unnatural as in not a result of a natural process. Humans are the result of nature, but the human mind is something of an anomaly.
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TaraJo Offline
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#7
RE: The watchmaker analogy
October 4, 2015 at 11:27 pm
(October 4, 2015 at 11:24 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:
(October 4, 2015 at 11:20 pm)TaraJo Wrote: Define the word "unnatural" and I'll be able to answer that.

If by unnatural, you mean something that exists outside the natural world, the only thing I can think of that's unnatural is.... God, or any other supernatural being out there.

Unnatural as in not a result of a natural process. Humans are the result of nature, but the human mind is something of an anomaly.

The human mind is unnatral?  That's news to me.  I mean, here I was always thinking we developed these large brains via a very natural process: evolution.  Not to mention, these wonderful hands and fingers that allow us to manipulate tools, which, in turn, let us build great machines, those are also products of evolution.
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Exian Offline
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#8
RE: The watchmaker analogy
October 4, 2015 at 11:35 pm (This post was last modified: October 4, 2015 at 11:35 pm by Exian.)
Yeah, that he notices the watch and not the beach was always glaring to me, since the beach would be part of I.D.

Had a guy here a few weeks ago arguing for I.D. with the example of the Grand Canyon vs Mount Rushmore; one was designed and the other wasn't... and that was his argument for I.D.
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ApeNotKillApe Offline
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#9
RE: The watchmaker analogy
October 4, 2015 at 11:37 pm (This post was last modified: October 4, 2015 at 11:42 pm by ApeNotKillApe.)
(October 4, 2015 at 11:27 pm)TaraJo Wrote:
(October 4, 2015 at 11:24 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote: Unnatural as in not a result of a natural process. Humans are the result of nature, but the human mind is something of an anomaly.

The human mind is unnatral?  That's news to me.  I mean, here I was always thinking we developed these large brains via a very natural process: evolution.  Not to mention, these wonderful hands and fingers that allow us to manipulate tools, which, in turn, let us build great machines, those are also products of evolution.

How about: the watch is the result of human nature, which is a result of the brain which is a result of natural forces. Which does not mean natural forces are the result of human nature, unless you suggest that without the human mind, the forces of nature are unperceived and chaotic.
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TaraJo Offline
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#10
RE: The watchmaker analogy
October 4, 2015 at 11:48 pm
(October 4, 2015 at 11:37 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:
(October 4, 2015 at 11:27 pm)TaraJo Wrote: The human mind is unnatral?  That's news to me.  I mean, here I was always thinking we developed these large brains via a very natural process: evolution.  Not to mention, these wonderful hands and fingers that allow us to manipulate tools, which, in turn, let us build great machines, those are also products of evolution.

How about: the watch is the result of human nature, which is a result of the brain which is a result of natural forces. Which does not mean natural forces are the result of human nature, unless you suggest that without the human mind, the forces of nature are unperceived and chaotic.

True, but then you open up the idea that the minds of other species aren't technically natural and all their creations aren't natural, either.  The Great Coral Reef?  Unnatural.  Bee hives?  Unnatural.  Ant hills?  Unnatural.  Spider webs?  Unnatural.
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"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
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The watchmaker analogy



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