refuting misconceptions:1-women in Islam

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Because I'm a parent and the thought of an adult finding him sexually attractive horrifies me.

Attraction is involuntary, not something over which we have any control . There are no moral or legal implications.

We are judged and held accountable for our actions ,as it is accepted our actions are under our control.

Of course I don't blame you for your feeling of revulsion;feelings are also involuntary.If do however take exception to the special pleading of " I'm a parent" and to your gall at judging others for something beyond their control.

[Scented Nectar]

why are you ignoring the cases that the women gets more????????

Do they outnumber or even equal the number of cases where she gets less? No divorce financial rules should be based on gender.

So you still agree with this hadith that a woman's mind is deficient due to helplessness against their own emotions

you are talking as this is something bad but in fact its a very good thing thats why the women are better than men in some jobs like being a doctor and also in dealing with kids

Read this article, which is from the Pharyngula blog. It's about how we women always get told we are special for our alleged magical emotional powers, when in reality this accusation (which pretends to be a compliment) is used to keep us out of important things.

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From http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/..._out_o.php

Stereotyping women right out of science
Category: Equality
Posted on: June 3, 2010 5:21 PM, by PZ Myers

One of the most cunning tools of the patriarchy is the assignment of woo as a feminine virtue. Women are supposed to be intuitive, nurturing, accepting, and trusting, unlike those harsh and suspicious men. It's a double-trap; women are brought up indoctrinated into believing that being smart and skeptical is unladylike and unattractive, and at the same time, anyone who dares to suggest that intuition and soothing, supportive words are often unproductive can be slammed for being anti-woman, because, obviously, to suggest that a human being might want to do more with their life than changing diapers and baking cookies is a direct assault on womanhood.

This naive imposition of unscientific modes of thought on women specifically leads to the state we have now. Assume a fundamental difference in attitude: women feel, while men think. Now declare an obvious truth: science requires rigorous thought. The conclusion follows that women will not be taking advantage of their strengths (that woo stuff) if they are trying to do science, therefore they will not be as good at science as men, and they will also be harming their femininity if they try to shoehorn their tender and passionate minds into the restrictive constraints of manly critical thinking.

I've seen that condescending attitude often enough; it was at its most vivid when I was working with surgeons in training, and if there were any women in a group, they would invariably be shunted off into some task like post-op animal care while the men would get the sharp scalpels and dental drills and do the hard work of cutting into the animal subjects. I once dared to ask the team I was assisting, after seeing that casually assumed division of labor, if maybe they should ask her what she wanted to do, and was told indignantly by the men that she would be so much better at taking care of sick cats, as if their concern was their inferiority at the nurturing part of the job. It's the academic version of the wheedle, "Honey, I couldn't possibly do housework as well as you do...", and it's just as phony.

Twisty Faster has the other side of this bias - it ends up portraying science as anti-woman, therefore women should embrace the woo.

The argument has been made that intuition is superior to science because it is somehow free of the oppressive misogynist entanglements that encumber its dude-dominated counterpart. A spin-off of this argument says that, because academia has traditionally given (and continues to give) women the stink-eyed bum's rush, science is antifeminist and, presumably, must be shunned in favor of this women-centric intuition dealio.

I have to say that I really like her two answers to this view.

Science, like everything else on the planet, is Dude Nation's minion, yes, but "intuition" doesn't exist in a magical patriarchy-free zone merely because it is associated with women's reality. In fact, it is because of patriarchy that women were assigned the supposedly unique and mystical power of hunchiness the first place.

Exactly. Woo is powerless; you want to make someone powerless, put them in charge of nothing, but give it a happy-sounding title. Women have been taken on a millennia-long snipe hunt. But, you know, it keeps them busy and out of the hair of the guys doing the real, important work.

Her reply to the argument that science is anti-feminist, is even better:

But the statement "science harms women" is not as accurate as is "the application, by misogynist knobs, of scientific method to systems of oppression harms women."

The answer seems clear to me. Women shouldn't be cornered into the realm of superstition because it is more touchy-feely, and they shouldn't be anti-science. What they need to do is take the toys out of the hands of the misogynist knobs.

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the forbidden thing is compulsion between humanbeing but god telling you what will happen to you after death is not called compulsion it is warning

An evil threat is an evil threat is an evil threat, etc. It doesn't matter who is doing it. In fact, it is even worse if an authority figure like a god does it.

regarding what you think about that this will get women back 100 years i really see its the rights of women that wasnt given to them untill last hundred years Islam give it to them from 1400 years and there is a lot of things we muslim consider it as humilation to women but you guys are used to it so you cant see it(like looking at her body,sex before marriage,porn movies,....etc)

If you believe that both genders must cover their bodies, then at least you wouldn't be against women. However, even if the rules applied to both genders, you have no right to tell other people (both men and women) that they can't do non harmful things like your examples. That is very repressive of your religion to consider nonharmful freedoms as humiliating. None of those things are humiliating unless they are forced on someone. I would find it humiliating to have those basic freedoms taken away from me. I've enjoyed all of those examples at times of my choosing and never did I feel humiliated.

And islam never gave rights to women. Fuck off with those lies. They are currently the worst ones on our planet in that regard.

[mo3taz3nbar]

Do they outnumber or even equal the number of cases where she gets less? No divorce financial rules should be based on gender.

no am not outnumbering anything i just prove that the rules of divorce or anything dont depend on gender

One of the most cunning tools of the patriarchy is the assignment of woo as a feminine virtue. Women are supposed to be intuitive, nurturing, accepting, and trusting, unlike those harsh and suspicious men. It's a double-trap; women are brought up indoctrinated into believing that being smart and skeptical is unladylike and unattractive, and at the same time, anyone who dares to suggest that intuition and soothing, supportive words are often unproductive can be slammed for being anti-woman, because, obviously, to suggest that a human being might want to do more with their life than changing diapers and baking cookies is a direct assault on womanhood.

being more emotional has nothing to do with the things you mentioned above when you become a mother you will have more understanding of this

An evil threat is an evil threat is an evil threat, etc. It doesn't matter who is doing it. In fact, it is even worse if an authority figure like a god does it.

its hard to argue with that when you think that thre is no god and that he didnt create you

regarding what you think about that this will get women back 100 years i really see its the rights of women that wasnt given to them untill last hundred years Islam give it to them from 1400 years and there is a lot of things we muslim consider it as humilation to women but you guys are used to it so you cant see it(like looking at her body,sex before marriage,porn movies,....etc)
If you believe that both genders must cover their bodies, then at least you wouldn't be against women. However, even if the rules applied to both genders, you have no right to tell other people (both men and women) that they can't do non harmful things like your examples. That is very repressive of your religion to consider nonharmful freedoms as humiliating. None of those things are humiliating unless they are forced on someone. I would find it humiliating to have those basic freedoms taken away from me. I've enjoyed all of those examples at times of my choosing and never did I feel humiliated.

its your freedom to choose wether to believe and do what god tells you or you refuse it but the things you see as freedom they seem like that but later things that may happen is really harmful for you and for the society(even if it didnt happen to you till now) you have to try it by yourself to know that when god forbid something its also for your own benefit
calm down scented am not attacking you we are just sharing our beliefs am not trying to force anything to you maybe the things am telling you now you will discover it later and the same about anything you tell me

[Scented Nectar]

Do they outnumber or even equal the number of cases where she gets less? No divorce financial rules should be based on gender.

no am not outnumbering anything i just prove that the rules of divorce or anything dont depend on gender

You haven't proven this at all. We have seen proof that the rules are indeed dependant on gender. Nothing so far says to disregard those rules. It hasn't even been pseudo-counter-balanced with an opposing (but equally sexist) divorce rule in men's disfavour that happens with equal frequency.

being more emotional has nothing to do with the things you mentioned above when you become a mother you will have more understanding of this

I am 47 years old, sonny!!! But, thanks for trying to tell me what I will be feeling, you silly young person who is not even the same gender as me and knows nothing of motherhood or parental instincts. For people who do decide to have children, of course emotions come into play, but for both. Which parent is going to be staying home and raising the kids, thus having a higher likely emotional investment/experience? I used to know a guy who really liked the idea of someday being a househusband, doing the traditionally female role of child care and cooking. He was a very good cook too, and had I ever wanted to settle down and raise a family, I would have pursued him in a serious way, but I digress.

its your freedom to choose wether to believe and do what god tells you or you refuse it but the things you see as freedom they seem like that but later things that may happen is really harmful for you and for the society(even if it didnt happen to you till now) you have to try it by yourself to know that when god forbid something its also for your own benefit

That's pretty creepy. I hope that's not what it sounds like, but before jumping to conclusions, what harmful results are you trying to blame on the three examples of exposed skin, unmarried sex and porn viewing? Also, are you saying that this harm will happen differently to women, eg resulting from the fact that your religion gives different clothing rules to women and men?

calm down scented am not attacking you we are just sharing our beliefs am not trying to force anything to you maybe the things am telling you now you will discover it later and the same about anything you tell me

Calm down yourself, buddy. I'll be as calm or not calm as I feel like. You are telling me that your imaginary god is forcing this on me. If your god wants to tell me something, he can tell me directly. He can instantly talk to my brain in a way that I can't help but to believe in him. Then I can consider whether it's worth following the rules he (not you or your silly book) tells me about to avoid the after death punishment he threatens me with.

[mo3taz3nbar]

ok i will still try not to get in an endless arguing with angry people. but am here for any questions regarding this issue also am preparing a thread on Quran authenticity

[Paul the Human]

In other words: You are not here to listen to anyone. You are here to preach.

[mo3taz3nbar]

In other words: You are not here to listen to anyone. You are here to preach.

am not here to preach but also am not here to argue without an end if someone is saying his opinion or saying somthing clear i respond but when i feel that someone really hate religion and talk in inapproperiate way i prefer to pass

[downbeatplumb]

In other words: You are not here to listen to anyone. You are here to preach.

am not here to preach but also am not here to argue without an end if someone is saying his opinion or saying somthing clear i respond but when i feel that someone really hate religion and talk in inapproperiate way i prefer to pass

It is of course your right to answer or not.

although refusal to answer a valid point, even an angry one, can be a bit annoying.

to keep on topic.

If Islam is not oppressive of females why does it seem to be so oppressive?

[mo3taz3nbar]

If Islam is not oppressive of females why does it seem to be so oppressive?

the media show some of the opression done to women in some islamic countries according to their culture as its what muslims do and what the Quran says but in fact these situations are really done by minorities and i mentioned what Quran says regarding women in the my first post

[AtheistPhil]

If Islam is not oppressive of females why does it seem to be so oppressive?

the media show some of the opression done to women in some islamic countries according to their culture as its what muslims do and what the Quran says but in fact these situations are really done by minorities and i mentioned what Quran says regarding women in the my first post

So the Qur'an DOES say to oppress women ?