Women's clothes?

[Heat]

If you trust the stats, then that article addresses everything else you've stated here.

To make another religious comparison: It's like showing a creationist evidence for evolution...

Except wage gaps are still largely murky waters and debateable.

[GrandizerII]

To make another religious comparison: It's like showing a creationist evidence for evolution...

Except wage gaps are still largely murky waters and debateable.

Ok, so can you provide an explanation for the unexplained portion of the difference in earnings between men and women?

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

Exactly.
Women are not paid less. This is a myth. Can you name 1 woman that you know personally(and I don't mean saw her at farmer's market once personally) is working the same job as a man but is getting paid less than a male that is doing the same job? You yourself have confirmed that this is not the case. Yet you claim that unequal pay is a serious inequality among women? That's what I meant to point out to you. Secondly, I didn't assume that you did not speak against inequalities against men, if you do then - good on you.

What feminists mean by pay inequality when they say "Women are paid less than Men" is the collective money women make is less than the collective money men make. The use of "pay inequality" in this context itself is highly misleading and ultimately gives the impression that women are being discriminated against - when they aren't. Furthermore it is illegal for a company to even exercise lesser pay to women - if you know any such company then sue the shit out of them - although I'm skeptical you will find any company like that.
It's like saying, since students with higher IQ's are the majority of students in high profile schools and colleges - Colleges and schools are creating a discrimination against students with lower IQ's - which isn't the case.
Anyway, lets go back to Women's Clothes. Don't want to further get off topic.

Many women are paid less for the same job and the same hours.  Don't bullshit me.

Personally, yes I DO know women in that EXACT circumstance.

I myself spoke that this is not the case?  BULLSHIT.

I said it was not the case for ME!

Is that hard to understand?

I, as a professional working woman, am NOT representative of working women as a whole.

That's a very vague statement. Give us some more information. Where are these women working, which company are they working for etc

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

Man, people are about to get shitty with me about this.


The "wage gap" argument is one of the reasons you and I had that argument a while back about why "feminist" isn't a label I want. What you're describing is an "earnings gap," and there are lots of factors that play into it. Men tend to work more hours and take riskier jobs with more demands, hence the higher pay grades of those jobs. When women work those same jobs for the same hours, they make the same amount.


In pretty much all of the Western world, it is illegal to pay a woman less than a man for the same work, and the stats reflect that. Women as a broad group still earn less than men during their lifetimes, but women who make the same choices and work the same jobs as men make the same pay.


Yes, I'm sure that there are still instances where employers knowingly discriminate against women, but it's far from systemic, at least in America and its peer countries. The fact is that if you work like a man, you'll earn what a man earns nine times out of ten. The reason for the earnings gap is that there are lots of women in the numbers who either don't work at all or whose work suffers because of children and/or their choice of job and lifestyle.


Oh look, I seem to have lost my umbrella. 

Here's a link for you:
http://www.aauw.org/files/2015/09/The-Si...l-2015.pdf

Page 8 if you don't wish to read the whole thing.

Could you quote the thing here?
Pretty please?

[GrandizerII]

Here's a link for you:
http://www.aauw.org/files/2015/09/The-Si...l-2015.pdf

Page 8 if you don't wish to read the whole thing.

Could you quote the thing here?
Pretty please?

I'd love to, but I'm having a hard time highlighting the text to copy. It's not easy to copy and paste, it seems.

[The Valkyrie]

Many women are paid less for the same job and the same hours.  Don't bullshit me.

Personally, yes I DO know women in that EXACT circumstance.

I myself spoke that this is not the case?  BULLSHIT.

I said it was not the case for ME!

Is that hard to understand?

I, as a professional working woman, am NOT representative of working women as a whole.

That's a very vague statement. Give us some more information. Where are these women working, which company are they working for etc

Why, do you want to stalk my friends?

You ask if I knew women, personally.  I stated I do.

I'm not going to give their personal details.

[bennyboy]

I'm kind of curious, too. I've heard mixed reports. I've heard that while men make more for the same job, it's sometimes because they work longer hours, or because they've stayed in the same position for longer.

Can anyone give clear examples of salary jobs where men are routinely paid more than women? Other than professional sports for men, and professional modeling for women, which are unique exceptions, can someone provide some real numbers of cases where all factors are equal except only gender?

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

So you make a very vague statement and then expect us to believe you? That's not very convincing - for all I know you could be lying to get ahead of in the debate. You don't have to give your friends names or anything personal on that level, I'm sure you can give us information while still holding their identity in the dark. Details like which country, state they are working in and details like which company they are working for will not enable us to identify your friends even if we wanted.

[GrandizerII]

I'm kind of curious, too.  I've heard mixed reports.  I've heard that while men make more for the same job, it's sometimes because they work longer hours, or because they've stayed in the same position for longer.

Can anyone give clear examples of salary jobs where men are routinely paid more than women?  Other than professional sports for men, and professional modeling for women, which are unique exceptions, can someone provide some real numbers of cases where all factors are equal except only gender?

The issue is that when companies are allowed to keep salaries secret, it's hard to answer such questions the way you want them to be answered. But the stats have consistently shown that, even after ruling out career choices by men vs. women, and other gender-related factors that have been considered, there is still a gender gap. The question is what is accounting for that?

[bennyboy]

I'm kind of curious, too.  I've heard mixed reports.  I've heard that while men make more for the same job, it's sometimes because they work longer hours, or because they've stayed in the same position for longer.

Can anyone give clear examples of salary jobs where men are routinely paid more than women?  Other than professional sports for men, and professional modeling for women, which are unique exceptions, can someone provide some real numbers of cases where all factors are equal except only gender?

The issue is that when companies are allowed to keep salaries secret, it's hard to answer such questions the way you want them to be answered. But the stats have consistently shown that, even after ruling out career choices by men vs. women, and other gender-related factors that have been considered, there is still a gender gap. The question is what is accounting for that?

As I said, I've heard that men may work more overtime or on weekend more regularly, take less personal time off etc. (perhaps because they don't have to care for children) which would show up in year-end earnings statements.  There's also the issue of promotions, raises, etc.  I can definitely believe a man would be selectively promoted over a woman, especially in big businesses. But as an employer myself, I can't think of any reason I'd want to employ ANY men if women would be willing to do the same job for less money.

Can you link the studies that show that everything but gender has been ruled out, and there is still a gap?  That would definitely be data I'd like to see.