Atheists still the most hated minority

[mediocrates]

Well, maybe it kind of seems that way.  I bring it up only for the sake of curiosity rather that a cry of persecution. I don't feel personally wronged by this person or any others.  I just find it interesting and thought other perspectives might be enlightening.

The Atheist vs. Theist battle in the US is very even, and the 'persecution' is very much a two way street.  To compare that with the plight of black and LGBT people is pretty absurd.  It's more like a heated sports rivalry than a cop shoots you in the head 15 times because your black thing.

I agree that other minority groups have very different struggles; but, the atheist/theist situation is far from even.

[Brian37]

I certainly don't want to be part of a "cause". The "poor atheists", we all need to stand up for them also. Rally to the atheist cause.

No Thanks.

What? I don't know what you mean by this really, care to clarify?

You do understand that the reason that no one is forced to stand for the pledge in school is because of JWs not atheists. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virgi...._Barnette

And why prayer in school cannot be state lead was also not a case started by an atheist. O'hair was invited to be added to the original suit that ended up at the SCOTUS level. It was actually started by a Unitarian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abington_S...v._Schempp

And trust me, those judges in both those cases all had some sort of religious beliefs themselves. What they held important was maintaining Jefferson's wall. They were not saying America should be solely run by atheists, they were siding with theists that did not want other sects of different religions forcing their beliefs on them. In both cases.



I really hate this crap that because an atheist files a lawsuit they are only doing it for atheists. I think you should go back and read my prior posts. Believers should ALSO want neutral icons. "God" is a problematic word because nobody agrees on what that God is or what that god wants. As soon as you slap that ambiguous word on public icons it creates needless divisions. 

It makes me sick that an atheist would say to another atheist, who isn't even attempting to outlaw religion, to accuse them of having an "atheist cause", when all they are doing is taking part of the same legal system everyone else has the Constitutional right to use, like the JW and Unitarian used to keep government religion neutral.


Now, if that is not what you are doing, please clarify.

[henryp]

The Atheist vs. Theist battle in the US is very even, and the 'persecution' is very much a two way street.  To compare that with the plight of black and LGBT people is pretty absurd.  It's more like a heated sports rivalry than a cop shoots you in the head 15 times because your black thing.

I agree that other minority groups have very different struggles; but, the atheist/theist situation is far from even.

They have numbers, but we've got the money/power (young/white/educated/affluent).  Sure, the whiny cosmetic stuff like In God we Trust, the theists are winning.  But the media and social discourse are strongly in our favor on the overall framing of the debate.  The president called people out for clinging to their bibles.  The beliefs of theists are being labeled close-minded/bigoted/etc...  Popular opinion is whittling down acceptable religiousness to a watered down convictionless belief.  Which is in all practicality, atheism.  

I definitely expect my life as an atheist is easier than that of a theist going forward.  Although, if you live far enough in the south, that probably isn't the case there yet.  But they're 30 or 40 years behind most of the time on a lot of stuff.

[Brian37]

The Constitution and our system of checks and balances was to favor a sanctuary concept, in other words if there is a competing majority vs minority opinion, it was the duty of congress, the president and our courts to err on the side of the minority when it is legally feasible. Our system was not put here just to favor the majority all the time. The Constitution was not put there for one religion, it was devised so that all citizens could use it.

[mediocrates]

I agree that other minority groups have very different struggles; but, the atheist/theist situation is far from even.

 
I definitely expect my life as an atheist is easier than that of a theist going forward.  Although, if you live far enough in the south, that probably isn't the case there yet.  But they're 30 or 40 years behind most of the time on a lot of stuff.

I'm about as far south and 'in the belt' as you can get; perhaps that explains our difference in perspective.  That was the point of this thread... exposure to different perspectives.

[robvalue]

I think it has a lot to do with "atheist" being one of the most wildly misunderstood words at the moment. Some people will write an essay when you ask them what it means, and you're lucky if the correct definition is even in the middle somewhere.

[Brian37]

I think it has a lot to do with "atheist" being one of the most wildly misunderstood words at the moment. Some people will write an essay when you ask them what it means, and you're lucky if the correct definition is even in the middle somewhere.

Yea it is misunderstood, like "law" and "theory" are by laypeople when they hear it used by scientists.

Another word that is ill used is "capitalism", which is not a form of government.

[abaris]

You do understand that the reason that no one is forced to stand for the pledge in school is because of JWs not atheists. 

First, we haven't got a horse in the American race, even if we wanted to. Second, I've never even been asked if I am religious. At our equivalent of highschool, we still have the course religious studies. It's mandatory, unless your parents opt you out or, when you turn 16, you opt out. I did exactly that and noone looked twice at me for doing it. And that was back in 1979.

[Brian37]

You do understand that the reason that no one is forced to stand for the pledge in school is because of JWs not atheists. 

First, we haven't got a horse in the American race, even if we wanted to. Second, I've never even been asked if I am religious. At our equivalent of highschool, we still have the course religious studies. It's mandatory, unless your parents opt you out or, when you turn 16, you opt out. I did exactly that and noone looked twice at me for doing it. And that was back in 1979.

Yes we do, if you live in the United States, and you are a citizen, you have the same rights as any believer. Now the fact you don't feel comfortable saying anything does not obligate other atheists to say nothing. One is a rights issue and the other is your own personal comfort.

Now, again, if you think your silence because others treat you well is a sign they treat you equally you are a fool. Or if you think because it didn't happen to you means discrimination never happens to any atheist, that is bullshit. This country is big, and has 400 plus voting districts, and how people might treat you in one location is not the way everyone would in every location.

You were lucky and? And again, this is any minority, not just atheists. Many minorities get treated like shit outside your personal life, which makes the Constitution important, to both atheists and theists.

I got lucky with my mom when I told her I was an atheist, she at first thought it was a  phase but now understands it is not. My biological family treated my younger biological sister like shit when she announced she didn't believe. Now they have since calmed down  a bit. But I am glad my younger sister was an adult and not still living under age under that kind of right wing roof. 

I don't think you understand how hard it is for any human, worldwide, no matter the label, how hard it can be as a minority even within your own family. 

Now, I have had a Christian call my work and try to have me fired because of an atheist bumper sticker his kid saw on the back of my pick up. Are you saying that I should avoid conflict by not doing what I have every right to do with my own personal property?

I once had a guy shout me down at a laundromat  "WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE" kept repeating the shouting, saw the same bumper sticker the other moron did. Now again, should I avoid conflict because of someone else's baggage? Are you saying I shouldn't put the word "atheist" on my car? Why would that be considered advertisement rather than free speech when believers put crosses and "God" on everything and claim it's not advertising but mere free speech? 

I had it good, I only had someone verbally challenge me. But in the real world, atheists get fired, get kicked out of their apartments, get kicked out of their homes as kids. 

You had it good and so what, other people, and not just atheists, don't have it so good when they are confronted by a fearful majority.

[Minimalist]

Why, in a society where people are finally learning to understand others that are different from themselves

You aren't talking about 'Murrica, are you?