If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?

[popsthebuilder]

And yet Faith in GOD doesn't refute it at all.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Being in denial of bad logic does not make you objective, so yes that is what faith does to human thought, it stops you from thinking.

Look in all seriousness, you really don't need to be so formal by ending every post with "Peace". Everyone wants peace. This is not a formal setting. Relax, we can get "heated" but it is just a debate.

I am told of how to act and conduct myself in a foreign place. I am to promote peace and humility to the best I can.

I'm glad we can all agree on peace at least.[SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

[GUBU]

Spouting your bullshit ad nauseum only makes it more bullshitty not less. Also you'll get more unity from the contens of my arse than all the faiths put together.

Wait and see. I will wait with you.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

We don't need to wait, with our current knowledge we know all human created religions, i.e. all those ever to exist on this world, are bullshit and explain nothing about the world.

I'm not going to bother holding my breath waiting for you, I've more important things to do, like scratching my balls.

[popsthebuilder]

Wait and see. I will wait with you.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

We don't need to wait, with our current knowledge we know all human created religions, i.e. all those ever to exist on this world, are bullshit and explain nothing about the world.

I'm not going to bother holding my breath waiting for you, I've more important things to do, like scratching my balls.

Oh really?

Please sir, in your self proclaimed wisdom, tell me which things of all faiths are refuted by science?

I am specifically not asking for traditional creationist views as I feel the 6 "days" of initial formation were 6 aeons, and the flood of Noah was not technically global, but was all worldly pertaining that whole region, or particular people.

Thanks, I look forward to it.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

[Sheed1980]

Allah already knows what will happen and it's all part of a grand scheme. So why make Dua (supplementary prayers)? Are we hoping to change the mind of Allah by praying? Have Allah cure us of the illness or cancer that was given to us, by it, as part of our personalized plan perhaps?

Allah gives a human cancer and then we beg extra hard for our Cancer to go away. That's so egotistical. Remind me, what was the point of cancer again?

Oh right, to test us in this Dunya. Why can't humanity have less painful tests? Like an exam maybe? An exam on Quran before entering Jannah perhaps?

Yes Allah is All Knowing, Wise. But we aren't. We don't know what is going to happen to us. Or how it's going to happen. But with Allah's mercy He gives us free will to live our lives as we wish. By Him being All Knowing He knows we can't do an atom's weight of anything against His will. So He tells us He accepts prayer and answers prayer, accepts sincere repentance (except dying in the state of unbelief and shirk). So will we have faith in Him as our Lord and creator and seek His knowledge, forgiveness and guidance? Also He being The Most Merciful, He expiates sins from His believing servants for any hardships(non intentionally)we go through. Sickness, sadness, pain, struggle, u name it. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh said " if a Muslim feels so much as the prick of a thorn Allah expiates some of his sins". The Prophet Muhammad pbuh also said"A Muslim loses their sins like a tree loses its leaves". So Allah tests us to see if we will seek His forgiveness, help, and guidance, or will we be arrogant, and try doing it ourselves without His help which absolutely will not happen. And to answer ur question about the cancer. There are things that Allah does that go beyond our understanding. Because all of us as humans commit sins, and since cancer is a type of hardship Allah may possibly use it as a purgation or cleansing of sins from our souls in this life and out of His mercy, prevents us from the punishment of hellfire in the Hereafter. We have to always remember. We have plans and Allah has plans, and Allah is the best of planners.

[SofaKingHigh]

Allah already knows what will happen and it's all part of a grand scheme. So why make Dua (supplementary prayers)? Are we hoping to change the mind of Allah by praying? Have Allah cure us of the illness or cancer that was given to us, by it, as part of our personalized plan perhaps?

Allah gives a human cancer and then we beg extra hard for our Cancer to go away. That's so egotistical. Remind me, what was the point of cancer again?

Oh right, to test us in this Dunya. Why can't humanity have less painful tests? Like an exam maybe? An exam on Quran before entering Jannah perhaps?

Yes Allah is All Knowing, Wise. But we aren't. We don't know what is going to happen to us. Or how it's going to happen. But with Allah's mercy He gives us free will to live our lives as we wish. By Him being All Knowing He knows we can't do an atom's weight of anything against His will. So He tells us He accepts prayer and answers prayer, accepts sincere repentance (except dying in the state of unbelief and shirk). So will we have faith in Him as our Lord and creator and seek His knowledge, forgiveness and guidance? Also He being The Most Merciful, He expiates sins from His believing servants for any hardships(non intentionally)we go through. Sickness, sadness, pain, struggle, u name it. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh said " if a Muslim feels so much as the prick of a thorn Allah expiates some of his sins". The Prophet Muhammad pbuh also said"A Muslim loses their sins like a tree loses its leaves". So Allah tests us to see if we will seek His forgiveness, help, and guidance, or will we be arrogant, and try doing it ourselves without His help which absolutely will not happen. And to answer ur question about the cancer.  There are things that Allah does that go beyond our understanding. Because all of us as humans commit sins, and since cancer is a type of hardship Allah may possibly use it as a purgation or cleansing of sins from our souls in this life and out of His mercy, prevents us from the punishment of hellfire in the Hereafter. We have to always remember. We have plans and Allah has plans, and Allah is the best of planners.

Mo' was no prophet my friend, he was a liar, a charlatan, a war monger, thief and all round, general cuntbag.

You've been had son, it's a con, wake the fuck up.

[WinterHold]

Way to miss the point. I didn't say it was against the law to like science, I wish more people did. I said it is independent of ALL religions it is not there to prop up any religion. You liking science does not make Allah real anymore than a Jew liking science makes Yahweh real anymore than a Hindu liking science makes Vishnu real.

"law of the universe", see you do the same thing Christians do. "Law" in science does not mean the same thing religious people like it to mean. "Law" is not a government written thing when it is used in the context of science. "Law" as used in science is a description of confirmed and tested observations that are consistent over long term data observation. 

And the "who" part, you make the same mistake too. You assume a cosmic magical "sky who" is some factory owner and we are his products. No, that is now how science views nature. Just like you already accept that Thor is not needed to explain why lightening happens. Just like you already accept you don't need Poseidon to be the cause of hurricanes.

It isn't a who that did all this, it was a non cognitive process, like how the seasons change and we have different weather every day. CONDITONS, not a who, a process, not a thinking being. 

It can be viewed like riding in a giant weather pattern and we are simply a manifestation of those events. The problem you are stuck with that all god claimers are still suffer from "which god", and the problem of infinite regress.

So the simplest solution is to know if you are are right are to ask yourself, not me, but yourself, the following. Which to you seems to be more likely?

1. A god exists?

Or

2. Humans make them up and merely like the idea?

Now you already reject lots of other god claims and I would say rightfully so. You don't buy Thor as being real. You don't buy Vishnu as being real. You don't buy Yahweh as being real, and while you share some of the same characters you dont see Jesus as being the one true way to heaven.

The only difference between you and me, is that I reject one more god claim than you do. When you can aim your own skepticism that you used to reject other god claims, besides your own, at your own claim, then maybe you can see where the atheist is coming from.

My conclusion about Thor -that he doesn't exist- is coming from the bold red underlines that I put under Norse mythology. The story of creation and the story of the Norse idols  -just like Greek mythology- are just full of gaps & contradictions.

Yes, others may claim that their idols the the real deal, but it all comes down to what the deity had to present. If the religion is contradicting to itself from the inside, then that's how we know it's false.

In order for science to be accurate, it must be materialistic to the core. Science discuss the method of creation; faith and belief just make your head hardwired like that : and actually, it can't be disproved unless somebody travel back in time, and see how the universe began. 

For your question : I can't trust the origin of the thought either -existence of God-. Did humanity create it, or was it a reality, that got twisted in many places to produce hundreds of different religions ?

[GUBU]

We don't need to wait, with our current knowledge we know all human created religions, i.e. all those ever to exist on this world, are bullshit and explain nothing about the world.

I'm not going to bother holding my breath waiting for you, I've more important things to do, like scratching my balls.

Oh really?

Please sir, in your self proclaimed wisdom, tell me which things of all faiths are refuted by science?

I am specifically not asking for traditional creationist views as I feel the 6 "days" of initial formation were 6 aeons, and the flood of Noah was not technically global, but was all worldly pertaining that whole region, or particular people.

Thanks, I look forward to it.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

The assertion that god(s) are needed to create reality, the various flood myths, the various creation myths (none that I know of are even remotely close), the various forms of creatardism. And this is only me scratching the surface, need I go on?

But, honestly, I don't care about your delusions, I only care when you try and shove them down my throat as if they were universally acknowledged facts. And if you think being snide is going to stop your bullshit being shown as bullshit think again.

[popsthebuilder]

Yes Allah is All Knowing, Wise. But we aren't. We don't know what is going to happen to us. Or how it's going to happen. But with Allah's mercy He gives us free will to live our lives as we wish. By Him being All Knowing He knows we can't do an atom's weight of anything against His will. So He tells us He accepts prayer and answers prayer, accepts sincere repentance (except dying in the state of unbelief and shirk). So will we have faith in Him as our Lord and creator and seek His knowledge, forgiveness and guidance? Also He being The Most Merciful, He expiates sins from His believing servants for any hardships(non intentionally)we go through. Sickness, sadness, pain, struggle, u name it. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh said " if a Muslim feels so much as the prick of a thorn Allah expiates some of his sins". The Prophet Muhammad pbuh also said"A Muslim loses their sins like a tree loses its leaves". So Allah tests us to see if we will seek His forgiveness, help, and guidance, or will we be arrogant, and try doing it ourselves without His help which absolutely will not happen. And to answer ur question about the cancer.  There are things that Allah does that go beyond our understanding. Because all of us as humans commit sins, and since cancer is a type of hardship Allah may possibly use it as a purgation or cleansing of sins from our souls in this life and out of His mercy, prevents us from the punishment of hellfire in the Hereafter. We have to always remember. We have plans and Allah has plans, and Allah is the best of planners.

Mo' was no prophet my friend, he was a liar, a charlatan, a war monger, thief and all round, general cuntbag.

You've been had son, it's a con, wake the fuck up.

Nice opinion.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

[Brian37]

Allah already knows what will happen and it's all part of a grand scheme. So why make Dua (supplementary prayers)? Are we hoping to change the mind of Allah by praying? Have Allah cure us of the illness or cancer that was given to us, by it, as part of our personalized plan perhaps?

Allah gives a human cancer and then we beg extra hard for our Cancer to go away. That's so egotistical. Remind me, what was the point of cancer again?

Oh right, to test us in this Dunya. Why can't humanity have less painful tests? Like an exam maybe? An exam on Quran before entering Jannah perhaps?

Yes Allah is All Knowing, Wise. But we aren't. We don't know what is going to happen to us. Or how it's going to happen. But with Allah's mercy He gives us free will to live our lives as we wish. By Him being All Knowing He knows we can't do an atom's weight of anything against His will. So He tells us He accepts prayer and answers prayer, accepts sincere repentance (except dying in the state of unbelief and shirk). So will we have faith in Him as our Lord and creator and seek His knowledge, forgiveness and guidance? Also He being The Most Merciful, He expiates sins from His believing servants for any hardships(non intentionally)we go through. Sickness, sadness, pain, struggle, u name it. The Prophet Muhammad pbuh said " if a Muslim feels so much as the prick of a thorn Allah expiates some of his sins". The Prophet Muhammad pbuh also said"A Muslim loses their sins like a tree loses its leaves". So Allah tests us to see if we will seek His forgiveness, help, and guidance, or will we be arrogant, and try doing it ourselves without His help which absolutely will not happen. And to answer ur question about the cancer.  There are things that Allah does that go beyond our understanding. Because all of us as humans commit sins, and since cancer is a type of hardship Allah may possibly use it as a purgation or cleansing of sins from our souls in this life and out of His mercy, prevents us from the punishment of hellfire in the Hereafter. We have to always remember. We have plans and Allah has plans, and Allah is the best of planners.

Please try getting this through your head. EVERY religion argues the same thing. 

"Allah Is all Knowing"
"The God of Jesus is All Knowing"
"Yahweh of The Jews is ALL Knowing"

"But with Allah's mercy"
"But with Jesus's mercy"
"But with Yahweh's mercy"

"Allah has plans"
"Jesus has plans"
"Yahweh has plans"

And so what. Humans invent god claims. It was understandable back then when humans didn't know any better. Islam is a spin off of Christianity. Christianity is a spin off of Hebrew/Jewish. Hebrew/Jewish is a spin off of Canaanite polytheism. It is all made up, there never was a god.

Now again, what fails with the "Omni=All" argument, "All seeing, All knowing, All powerful, and All loving", does not work for any of the three religions. If these claimed three god claims have "a plan", you defy your trust in his plan by asking for help, if you trust this claimed being knows what he is doing, then you shouldn't have to ask for help or act as his salesman or public relations department. By selling your book and god, and by praying, you are admitting without realizing it, that you don't believe he can do the job without your help.

"free will" is a cop out argument. It does not work when Christians or Muslims or Jews do it. This isn't a fallible mere mortal according to any of these religions. This is someone according to them, that has the absolute power to prevent harm to all humans all the time if it wanted to. Are you going to be stupid and try to claim that an "all powerful" and "all loving god" would sit and watch year after year and watch 50 million humans die worldwide every year? That is the average number of deaths worldwide in every nation, dying from everything humans can die from, young, teen, young adult, middle age and old. They die in childbirth, childhood disease, and every age can and does die from disease, famine, natural disaster, accident, crime and war. 

50 million a year worldwide. That is half a billion deaths in a decade, and 1 billion every 20 years. You have the nerve to tell me 1 billion people all of them deserved it, or that this is all part of a perfect plan? I was born at night, just not last night.

[Brian37]

Being in denial of bad logic does not make you objective, so yes that is what faith does to human thought, it stops you from thinking.

Look in all seriousness, you really don't need to be so formal by ending every post with "Peace". Everyone wants peace. This is not a formal setting. Relax, we can get "heated" but it is just a debate.

I am told of how to act and conduct myself in a foreign place. I am to promote peace and humility to the best I can.

I'm glad we can all agree on peace at least.[SMILING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Can you do us all a favor? Please in all seriousness, don't be so formal at the end of your posts. You don't have to keep typing "peace", that assumes every other religion and atheists as well don't want peace. If that is not what you intend, just be aware that it does come off to the reader as self righteous.

 That is you saying that to say "I am a good person". That is not the point of this website. We may think your logic is bad, but you don't have to keep repeating that word, we get it, you want peace, and so do most humans.

And there is a user control "user CP" option where you edit your profile, if you insist on a quote you want in every post you have a spot in your profile to put that quote called "signature". If you do that that quote will show up at the end of every single post at the bottom and save you some keyboard strokes.

I am not an admin and this is not a rule breaker as far as I know, but just some advice from me personally. You are here to debate I hope, but you don't have to prove in every single post what a good person you claim to be.