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(February 6, 2016 at 12:08 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(February 5, 2016 at 11:55 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Fair enough. We'll just have to disagree on that point. I believe in bodily autonomy in general and especially in case of rape and failed contraception. I don't know if the old saying that it takes all kinds is true, but we sure do have all kinds with a ton of differing beliefs, don't we?
P.S. Why can't you be ornry about it so I can cuss at you?!?
Thank you for being respectful. And yes, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
As Thump is fond of saying, I tend to make change in the coin tendered. You make it easy to be respectful.
(February 6, 2016 at 12:08 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: P.S. I've disagreed with enough people in my life to know how to handle it without getting ornery. (Most of the time anyway.)
See how you are! Now I'm gonna have to storm off in a huff and go sit in a corner and sulk! (I know exactly what you mean about most of the time)
Thief and assassin for hire. Member in good standing of the Rogues Guild.
(February 6, 2016 at 12:08 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: P.S. I've disagreed with enough people in my life to know how to handle it without getting ornery. (Most of the time anyway.)
(My bolding)
I read this as something similar but beginning with 'H'.
(February 6, 2016 at 12:27 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote:
(February 6, 2016 at 12:08 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Thank you for being respectful. And yes, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
As Thump is fond of saying, I tend to make change in the coin tendered. You make it easy to be respectful.
(February 6, 2016 at 12:08 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: P.S. I've disagreed with enough people in my life to know how to handle it without getting ornery. (Most of the time anyway.)
See how you are! Now I'm gonna have to storm off in a huff and go sit in a corner and sulk! (I know exactly what you mean about most of the time)
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
February 17, 2016 at 6:10 pm (This post was last modified: February 17, 2016 at 6:11 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(February 17, 2016 at 5:57 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: Sam Harris' obvious contextual use of the word fatalism(to explain something entirely different than what I'm referring to) aside, here are the definitions for fatalism and determinism. Tell me in which way don't they match.
Fatalism - the belief that all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.
Determinism - the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions.
Thus, if you don't believe in free will, you can't possibly think anything is in your control - since you don't have any free will. Notice I'm not arguing that you should just sit still all day and do nothing because of this, because exactly like Harris said, this would be practically impossible to do and would be a choice in itself.
I think one has to keep in mind that Harris isn't always addressing a sophisticated enough audience(at least not intentionally), in fact he's almost certainly doing just the opposite most of the time. This allows for some ambiguity in interpreting him, at times.
Let's take this to my Brainstorm thread, if you please.
Quote:[...]Fatalism generally refers to any of the following ideas:
The view that we are powerless to do anything other than what we actually do. Included in this is that man has no power to influence the future, or indeed, his own actions. This belief is very similar to predeterminism. An attitude of resignation in the face of some future event or events which are thought to be inevitable. Friedrich Nietzsche named this idea with "Turkish fatalism" in his book The Wanderer and His Shadow. That acceptance is appropriate, rather than resistance against inevitability. This belief is very similar to defeatism.
(my emphasis)
Fatalism generally refers to the idea that we don't have a choice.
If there's no free will it doesn't mean that we don't have a choice, it just means we don't have a free choice.
EP from underneath the above hide-tag Wrote:[...]if you don't believe in free will, you can't possibly think anything is in your control - since you don't have any free will.
I do have control just as I do have a will. It's just that my will, my control and my choices aren't free. They're still there and I still have it/them.
I agree with you. All I disagree with are definitions. I think everyone's a fatalist, whether they identify as such or not. This is more of a philosophical stance regarding language, not so much a disagreement about the existence of choice, will, control and so on - or whether they are free or not.
And yes, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
(I know exactly what you mean about most of the time)
