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RE: Dr. Craig is a liar.
May 10, 2016 at 11:00 am
(May 10, 2016 at 9:58 am)SteveII Wrote: (May 9, 2016 at 10:04 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Notice how Steve is ignoring my posts; perhaps someone else can answer for him.
You are asking the same thing as "can God make a rock so big that he can't pick it up". No, God cannot do logically impossible things like cvount all the natural numbers.
Does that include creating something from nothing, and if not why not?
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RE: Dr. Craig is a liar.
May 10, 2016 at 11:15 am
(May 10, 2016 at 10:55 am)Jehanne Wrote: (May 10, 2016 at 9:58 am)SteveII Wrote: You are asking the same thing as "can God make a rock so big that he can't pick it up". No, God cannot do logically impossible things like count all the natural numbers.
Seems like special pleading to say that god can create something out of nothing, as others have pointed out. But, as I have asked (as have others), when did god go from being "timeless" to being "timely" (sorry if that is not the correct word); what caused god to change states?
If I could chime in. I would still argue, that if you start with nothing on one side of the equation, that you will have nothing on the other side. I think that the doctrine of "Ex Nihilo" which is derived from scripture, is stating that God created everything from himself. That there was nothing outside of God, with which he was working.
As to your second question, I would not say that God changed states, so I can't answer that particular question.
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RE: Dr. Craig is a liar.
May 10, 2016 at 11:20 am
(This post was last modified: May 10, 2016 at 11:20 am by LadyForCamus.
Edit Reason: I'm dumb
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(May 10, 2016 at 11:15 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (May 10, 2016 at 10:55 am)Jehanne Wrote: Seems like special pleading to say that god can create something out of nothing, as others have pointed out. But, as I have asked (as have others), when did god go from being "timeless" to being "timely" (sorry if that is not the correct word); what caused god to change states?
If I could chime in. I would still argue, that if you start with nothing on one side of the equation, that you will have nothing on the other side. I think that the doctrine of "Ex Nihilo" which is derived from scripture, is stating that God created everything from himself. That there was nothing outside of God, with which he was working.
As to your second question, I would not say that God changed states, so I can't answer that particular question. How can a something exist within nothing? That. doesn't. Make. Sense. It's like saying God existed in a state of non-existence.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: Dr. Craig is a liar.
May 10, 2016 at 11:22 am
(May 10, 2016 at 11:20 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: (May 10, 2016 at 11:15 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: If I could chime in. I would still argue, that if you start with nothing on one side of the equation, that you will have nothing on the other side. I think that the doctrine of "Ex Nihilo" which is derived from scripture, is stating that God created everything from himself. That there was nothing outside of God, with which he was working.
As to your second question, I would not say that God changed states, so I can't answer that particular question. How can a something exist within nothing? That. doesn't. Make. Sense. It's like saying God existed in a state of non-existence.
Does that question apply to something which is omnipresent and non-physical?
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Dr. Craig is a liar.
May 10, 2016 at 11:26 am
(This post was last modified: May 10, 2016 at 11:26 am by LadyForCamus.)
I'm not sure what you are asking... Non-physical (not sure what this means) but everywhere (even though there is no "anywhere" until God creates space) existing timelessly in non-existence?! My friend, I'm afraid you have lost me completely.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: Dr. Craig is a liar.
May 10, 2016 at 11:26 am
(This post was last modified: May 10, 2016 at 11:28 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 10, 2016 at 11:15 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: If I could chime in. I would still argue, that if you start with nothing on one side of the equation, that you will have nothing on the other side. I think that the doctrine of "Ex Nihilo" which is derived from scripture, is stating that God created everything from himself. That there was nothing outside of God, with which he was working. ........? The doctrine of ex nihilo is creation out of nothing (literally). Unless you think god is nothing, they don't quite match.
OTOH, being created out of god also opens up troublesome lines of inquiry as well. As per your ongoing description...god is a being limited by what is logically possible from which life (among other things - but definitely not all things-) originates. You fit that description pretty well yourself................
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RE: Dr. Craig is a liar.
May 10, 2016 at 11:33 am
(This post was last modified: May 10, 2016 at 11:34 am by LadyForCamus.
Edit Reason: format
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(May 10, 2016 at 10:59 am)I RoadRunner79 Wrote: (May 10, 2016 at 10:42 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: [*]
If we were simply defining evolution into existence, as you're effectively doing with the God of this first-mover argument, then yes you could. However, since evolution describes demonstrable phenomena to which we simply assign names and descriptions, it wouldn't really work the same way. [*]
Yes.... I am still waiting for my kit, in which I can reproduce common descent evolution (probably should send you an address). However, I think that it really shows a lack of understanding of the premise "everything that begins to exist... has a cause" to think that "begins" can arbitrarily be replaced with "blue". I can understand the case being made, concerning the ontological argument; however, I think it is misguided here. [*]
I think it shows your fundamental misunderstanding of how science works...
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Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: Dr. Craig is a liar.
May 10, 2016 at 11:45 am
(May 10, 2016 at 11:33 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: (May 10, 2016 at 10:59 am)I RoadRunner79 Wrote: [*]
Yes.... I am still waiting for my kit, in which I can reproduce common descent evolution (probably should send you an address). However, I think that it really shows a lack of understanding of the premise "everything that begins to exist... has a cause" to think that "begins" can arbitrarily be replaced with "blue". I can understand the case being made, concerning the ontological argument; however, I think it is misguided here. [*]
I think it shows your fundamental misunderstanding of how science works... [*]
Just having a little fun, with those who demand unreasonable evidence.
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Dr. Craig is a liar.
May 10, 2016 at 11:49 am
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
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RE: Dr. Craig is a liar.
May 10, 2016 at 12:08 pm
(This post was last modified: May 10, 2016 at 12:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The extraordinary evidence well appears to have dried up in the case of god centuries ago.
@Roadrunner....is there something unreasonable about people asking for evidence of common descent? I want in on the fun you're having, but I don't get the joke.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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