Why do people on here act as if Islam if no worse than any other faith?

[paulpablo]

I think in some cases it's the opposite.

Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way.

Probably if I asked a Muslim in work if he considered this to be a justifiable punishment he would say no, that is if they're accustomed to western culture of not killing women who cheat on their husbands.  But it is in the quran 4-15.  

4:15. As to those of your women who commit sexual perversity, call in four of you to witness against them, and if they bear witness then confine them to their houses, until death overtakes them or Allâh makes for them a way out.

Yeah, finding four witnesses to honestly attest to seeing a married woman have unlawful sex is pretty rare. Also it says to confide them to their home, not to murder them. It also says to punish men who do the same.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

If you confine someone to a building until death overtakes them it's probably considered murder, maybe neglect causing death, something along those lines.
I haven't read the Quran saying to confine men to houses until death overtakes them, I'm not claiming that it doesn't, but which verse is that?

[Mister Agenda]

Among other stats, 14% of United States Muslims believe suicide bombings are sometimes or always justified. In most other nations it's worse. Pew sort of tries to spin its own results to make Muslims seem as unbad as possible but imagine if a similiar amount of Christians approved of similiar things. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...the-world/

What your link actually says:

 "In the United States, a 2011 survey found that 86% of Muslims say that such tactics are rarely or never justified. An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified in these circumstances."

And it doesn't pose a similar question to Christians, but we saw during The Troubles that they don't seem to have a particular reluctance to use old-fashioned 'homicide bombing'.

I would support suicide bombing if my country was occupied and it was the most effective way to combat the invaders.

[Mister Agenda]

I disagree with the premise.  Right now, islam is the worst.  They are where the jesus freaks were 500 years ago.

It's not that Islam is the worst.  It's that other religions are currently tethered by shorter leashes not of their own choosing.    Don't think for a second many of them, Many strains of Christinity foremost amongst them, are not straining as hard as ever they can, seeking to break the leash and obtain for themselves for the freedom to surpass Islam in oppression, intolerance, and appeal to iron age primitivism and superstition.

For example, Cruz is a Christian Dominionist, they literally want to turn the USA into a Christian theocracy, and he's a presidential frontrunner. Many Dominionists aim to bring back Old Testament punishments for crime; like stoning for adultery.

Saudi Arabia was effectively conquered by Wahhabis a century ago, and then they got oil money to finance spreading their particularly fundamentalist and militant doctrine all over the Middle East and North Africa. That's a gross oversimplification, but the best I can do in one sentence.  

The problems we're getting from the region have as much to do with oil, Western interventionism, and tribal desert cultures as with religion; and I strongly suspect if Islam had never existed, we would be having similar problems today, only with Middle Eastern and North African Orthodox Christians, and we might be a little more hesitant to assume that it's their religion at the root of our grief.

[Mister Agenda]

If you confine someone to a building until death overtakes them it's probably considered murder, maybe neglect causing death, something along those lines.
I haven't read the Quran saying to confine men to houses until death overtakes them, I'm not claiming that it doesn't, but which verse is that?

That the woman isn't provided the necessities of life is an assumption. The Old Testament says put adulterers and adulteresses to death by stoning. Not much wiggle room there.

[paulpablo]

That the woman isn't provided the necessities of life is an assumption. The Old Testament says put adulterers and adulteresses to death by stoning. Not much wiggle room there.

That's true actually I hadn't thought of that.  Still leaves the woman with a fairly dull existence.  This punishment plus the flogging.  And the wife beating if a husband fears his wife is rebellious.

Plus comparing something with the bible means nothing to me personally, I'm an atheist I don't see the bible as the hallmark of civilization.

I'm just commenting on the precise statement that as a standalone book the quran is peaceful.  If this book was introduced today to the modern world as a brand new peaceful philosophy I think it would fail.  If it was never a holy book and it was just introduced in stages as essays introduced on websites like this one, tumblr, youtube and so on.

Yeh there's loads of verses that are quite nice but the bad bits just wouldn't pass in today's world.  You couldn't tell a modern day feminist that the verse only says to beat her if her husband feels rebellious as a last resort.  Slut shaming is one thing but lashing people for having sex outside of marriage probably wouldn't hold up as a peaceful idea in today's world.  Rules concerning it being OK marry people who the right hand possesses. 

But hey I can't speak Arabic, maybe beat means pat on the head, right hand possesses means woman you're holding hands with, flog means have stern words with and so on and so on.  But as an Atheist who holds no particular miraculous importance to the quran I'd guess it is talking about slaves, beating wives and so on because this was all pretty much an ok moral standard to have at the time and standard practice.  Not evil, but just not up to today's moral standards.

The correct response to someone who says the quran is peaceful isn't to look at other similar religions to compare to if you already believe those comparative religions to not be peaceful.

It's like someone holding up three rotten apples, the newest one is slightly less rotten but someone is telling you the apple is fresh someone else is telling you, no that apple is rotten.

[WinterHold]

4:15. As to those of your women who commit sexual perversity, call in four of you to witness against them, and if they bear witness then confine them to their houses, until death overtakes them or Allâh makes for them a way out.

Yeah, finding four witnesses to honestly attest to seeing a married woman have unlawful sex is pretty rare. Also it says to confide them to their home, not to murder them. It also says to punish men who do the same.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Confine them until death takes them sounds like lock them in a room until they starve to death.

The Quran is a 600 page book; when a sentence is to be fetched, is must assert to the 600 pages; going in parallel with all of the other verses, you see the logic of the book is such a tough one, that it really doesn't contradict itself.

The woman can save her life simply by abandoning the faith, if she's a non-Muslim then sentences of Muslims don't go on her. A sentence like this, is a personal choice, so that our sins get purified. That, if one believes anyways.

Remember: Sura 2, verse 256:

( 256 )   There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. 

And it's not like I'm making this up; actually the wives of Mohammed were advised to "leave" if they can't handle the faith:

Sura 66
( 4 )   If you two [wives] repent to Allah, [it is best], for your hearts have deviated. But if you cooperate against him - then indeed Allah is his protector, and Gabriel and the righteous of the believers and the angels, moreover, are [his] assistants.

( 5 )   Perhaps his Lord, if he divorced you [all], would substitute for him wives better than you - submitting [to Allah], believing, devoutly obedient, repentant, worshipping, and traveling - [ones] previously married and virgins.
( 6 )   O you who have believed, protect yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is people and stones, over which are [appointed] angels, harsh and severe; they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them but do what they are commanded.

 You see, if they disobeyed, the Quran didn't say "lock them until they starve to death", they should go instead, live their lives to the fullest, go, live, eventually you'll find nothing but death. If you're immortal; then that's a different story though..

In other words; one sentence should not go against any verse in the Quran. If somebody doesn't believe in the faith, then it shall not be forced compulsively upon them. But if somebody commits the sin, and they want to be purified, and they want to attempt at God's mercy, then they should accept the punishment. Like if I had sex outside marriage, I can totally submit myself to get lashed. 100 lashes.

I never want God to be mad at me..it's a personal choice..I, personally, like transexuals. That's so wrong. So I try to quit it so God doesn't hate me. etc . But Muslims used this to oppress 

Muslims have been playing gymnastics around this verse for 1400, and that's why you have Sunna and Shia faiths.
The real Islam though? here it is..read the verses yourself.

Want madness?go to the Shia and Sunna and read their Hadiths, to see how the real ideology twisting takes place.

[paulpablo]

Confine them until death takes them sounds like lock them in a room until they starve to death.

The Quran is a 600 page book; when a sentence is to be fetched, is must assert to the 600 pages; going in parallel with all of the other verses, you see the logic of the book is such a tough one, that it really doesn't contradict itself.

The woman can save her life simply by abandoning the faith, if she's a non-Muslim then sentences of Muslims don't go on her. A sentence like this, is a personal choice, so that our sins get purified. That, if one believes anyways.

Remember: Sura 2, verse 256:

( 256 )   There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. 

And it's not like I'm making this up; actually the wives of Mohammed were advised to "leave" if they can't handle the faith:

Sura 66
( 4 )   If you two [wives] repent to Allah, [it is best], for your hearts have deviated. But if you cooperate against him - then indeed Allah is his protector, and Gabriel and the righteous of the believers and the angels, moreover, are [his] assistants.

( 5 )   Perhaps his Lord, if he divorced you [all], would substitute for him wives better than you - submitting [to Allah], believing, devoutly obedient, repentant, worshipping, and traveling - [ones] previously married and virgins.
( 6 )   O you who have believed, protect yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is people and stones, over which are [appointed] angels, harsh and severe; they do not disobey Allah in what He commands them but do what they are commanded.

 You see, if they disobeyed, the Quran didn't say "lock them until they starve to death", they should go instead, live their lives to the fullest, go, live, eventually you'll find nothing but death. If you're immortal; then that's a different story though..

In other words; one sentence should not go against any verse in the Quran. If somebody doesn't believe in the faith, then it shall not be forced compulsively upon them.

Muslims have been playing gymnastics around this verse for 1400, and that's why you have Sunna and Shia faiths.
The real Islam though? here it is..read the verses yourself.

Want madness?go to the Shia and Sunna and read their Hadiths, to see how the real ideology twisting takes place.

So why does the quran say confine them to a house?  (keep or restrict someone or something within certain limits of space, scope, or time).  Is the definition.

I realize it's totally justifiable to believe it might mean confine them and feed them I can see that now, the language is bit morbid but logically I can see it doesn't say starve them. 

besides, confining them isn't a punishment for not accepting the religion.  They may have excepted the religion, become tempted, cheated on their husband.  Now according to the quran it gives the husband the right to confine the woman to the house until she dies.  Or unless Allah provides a way out for her, which to me, as an atheist, would be like waiting for the unicorn to kick down the door and let her break free from the house.

[abaris]

You obviously aren't privy to Greek and Roman culture concerning women, are you? You know, the same ones we consider to be highly cultured and part of our Western foundations. Otherwise you would notice certain similarities.

Apart from the fact that something having been written some 1400 years ago isn't observed by everyone being a part of the culture. Simply going through the world with open eyes could easily lead to that conclusion. And I don't even ask to look at all the different Islamic countries and their particular cultures and lifestyles, since asking something like that seems to be an excercise in futility with certain people.

[paulpablo]

You obviously aren't privy to Greek and Roman culture concerning women, are you? You know, the same ones we consider to be highly cultured and part of our Western foundations. Otherwise you would notice certain similarities.

Apart from the fact that something having been written some 1400 years ago isn't observed by everyone being a part of the culture. Simply going through the world with open eyes could easily lead to that conclusion. And I don't even ask to look at all the different Islamic countries and their particular cultures and lifestyles, since asking something like that seems to be an excercise in futility with certain people.

What does that have to do with what I typed?

[abaris]

So why does the quran say confine them to a house?

Take it from there and come to your own conclusions.