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Current time: August 20, 2026, 11:47 am
| Poll: Do we have free will? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes. | 5 | 33.33% | |
| No. | 10 | 66.67% | |
| Total | 15 vote(s) | 100% | |
| * You voted for this item. | [Show Results] |
Thread Rating:
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Free Will - Yes/No?
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 (May 8, 2016 at 7:20 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: It is relevant because we can never escape causality and that means we do live in a deterministic universe. Do you see anything wrong with that line of thought? For sake of argument, we will assume causality is real. If quantum randomness is truly random then 'this' neuron might fire before 'that' neuron which would be unpredictable. Even though there is "cause and effect", the initiation is non-deterministic.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy (May 8, 2016 at 9:45 am)PETE_ROSE Wrote: Yes. Having foreknowledge of things does not shape or change the inevitable outcome. Knowing Alabama is going to trounce LSU in their own house come November, does not mean they should/will not play the game. Regardless how 'educated a guess' that is, it is still a guess as you do not "know". A couple of bad bounces for Alabama and a couple of good bounces for LSU and we have an upset.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion. -- Superintendent Chalmers Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things. -- Ned Flanders Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral. -- The Rev Lovejoy  (May 8, 2016 at 1:47 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: Do we have free will, or do we live in a deterministic universe? I take it you asked that for simplicity. I believe we live in a deterministic universe, and I don't believe in free will either... but even if we did live in an indeterministic universe the concept of contra-causal free will would still be incoherent, I'm sure you agree. -Hammy 
Understanding FW in the legal sense, sure I think I often have it. Very rarely am I coerced to do what I'd rather not. When it comes to being who I am but had no say in, I am a willing participant. So there is no coercion there. Put me down for FW yes with just enough determinism to make the world a little predictable and you'll have a deal.
I can't really make sense of FW in the OMG-we're-all-robots sense. So none of that for me, thanks. (May 8, 2016 at 6:06 am)robvalue Wrote: Beware the "free will fallacy", I've seen some very intelligent people slip up on it: I think "should" just has the usual meaning because nothing has actually changed about the universe, what we think we ought to do or ought not to do is the same as always, it's just people incorrectly believe in an entirely incoherent concept of absolutely free choices and absolute ultimate responsibility, when really we have the same usual decisions and choices we always have they're just not free, absolute or ultimate. -Hammy  (May 8, 2016 at 8:20 am)Excited Penguin Wrote:(May 8, 2016 at 8:20 am)mh.brewer Wrote: In some things/times I have free will, in others I don't. The amount of my free will depends on external factors. I can choose to hold my pee when I'm too lazy to get up off the couch and walk to bathroom.  . I do it all the time!
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”
Wiser words were never spoken.
Yup, just not freely choose because you're caused like everybody else [emoji6]
We all make decisions with or without free will -Hammy  (May 8, 2016 at 10:42 am)IATIA Wrote:(May 8, 2016 at 7:20 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: It is relevant because we can never escape causality and that means we do live in a deterministic universe. Do you see anything wrong with that line of thought? How does randomness exclude determinism, exactly? What does it matter that you can't predict the effect, there's still going to be an effect and you're going to be bound by it. |
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