Is Daenerys Targaryen a villain?

[SteelCurtain]

I was watching After the Thrones, and they mentioned a popular subreddit in which there is a discussion about whether or not Dany will eventually turn out to be the villain of ASOIAF.

It makes a bit of sense. She wants to take back Westeros, a place she's never really been, seen, or experienced, and she will murder all who oppose her. She is a Targaryen, and we are steadily seeing glimpses of the Mad King in her, in the black and white thinking, in her grand gestures and her lack of attention to nuance.

She doesn't know about white walkers and the coming darkness of winter. She doesn't know, although she probably suspects, that no one gives a flying fuck (pardon the pun) about a returning Targaryen. She'll have her dragons, but in taking "what is hers" she'll be marching into a foreign land 20+ years after any thought of a Targaryen, and taking the fuck over---with a foreign army of what will be seen as a barbaric horde. Many innocents will die just on account of that.

Will she pause for a vanguard? Does Tyrion/Varys talk her into a little stop by Dorne to rally a potential ally? Does she make a pit stop by Eastwatch and take a short flight to char up some wights and the Night's King in order to endear the people to her side? Is that too obvious for GRRM, who likes to buck all of the typical fantasy tropes?

What say you lot?

[downbeatplumb]

She seems thoughtful about the plight of others. She has set out to free the slaves and tempers extreme brutality with remorse. Her heart is currently in the right place. But it could go another way. Mr Martin is very good at subverting expectation.

[Homeless Nutter]

I think she's a villain - whether she means to be one, or not. Nobody is ever truly a villain in their own narrative.

She has an army of Hun-like barbarians and fire breathing dragons, she plans to unleash on unsuspecting people of Westeros, so that she can sit on a chair. She's cold-hearted (watched her nuisance of a brother getting killed, without batting an eyelash), deceitful ("sold" the dragon to the slavers, then had it burn them) and willing to do pretty much anything to achieve her goals. She's also emotionally scarred and quite self-obsessed.

G.R.R. Martin is anti-war, I think it would be pretty hypocritical of him, or at least uncharacteristic of his work to present a warring princess as the hero of the story. Both Daenerys and Jon Snow are war-mongers, so I expect that their actions will bring more suffering to the world.

The actual heroes of ASOIAF/GOT are probably characters like Varys and Davos, perhaps Brienne - people consequently operating somewhat in the background and motivated by certain values and long-term goals, like peace for Varys, law for Davos, or honor for Brienne, rather than personal vendettas. I'm not all that sure about the Maid of Tarth, since her search for honor seems to align quite suspiciously with her personal vendetta and also G.R.R. Martin showed pretty early on, that honor is something of a handicap in his universe - just look at what happened to Ned Stark.

[downbeatplumb]

I think she's a villain - whether she means to be one, or not. Nobody is ever truly a villain in their own narrative.

She has an army of Hun-like barbarians and fire breathing dragons, she plans to unleash on unsuspecting people of Westeros, so that she can sit on a chair. She's cold-hearted (watched her nuisance of a brother getting killed, without batting an eyelash), deceitful ("sold" the dragon to the slavers, then had it burn them) and willing to do pretty much anything to achieve her goals. She's also emotionally scarred and quite self-obsessed.

G.R.R. Martin is anti-war, I think it would be pretty hypocritical of him, or at least uncharacteristic of his work to present a warring princess as the hero of the story. Both Daenerys and Jon Snow are war-mongers, so I expect that their actions will bring more suffering to the world.

The actual heroes of ASOIAF/GOT are probably characters like Varys and Davos, perhaps Brienne - people consequently operating somewhat in the background and motivated by certain values and long-term goals, like peace for Varys, law for Davos, or honor for Brienne, rather than personal vendettas. I'm not all that sure about the Maid of Tarth, since her search for honor seems to align quite suspiciously with her personal vendetta and also G.R.R. Martin showed pretty early on, that honor is something of a handicap in his universe - just look at what happened to Ned Stark.

This would suggest that Tyrion is the hero, as anti war as they come, intelligent, empathic and not a slave to honour.

[Homeless Nutter]

This would suggest that Tyrion is the hero, as anti war as they come, intelligent, empathic and not a slave to honour.

Yes, Tyrion seems to fit the bill in many respects. It has to be said, however, that book-Tyrion and his TV counterpart differ quite a bit. Book-Tyrion is somewhat darker, a more brooding character, dwelling on the past and motivated largely by feelings of resentment towards his family. He's obsessed with love, or rather - being unable to have it, which is his weakness and what seems to make him un-focused and self-destructive - you could maybe even describe him as an "anti-hero". This is also true on the show, although we haven't really seen much evidence of it lately - possibly because we don't have as much insight into his thoughts, as in the book.

Book-Tyrion hasn't reached Daenerys yet and he's mainly preoccupied with his own survival, for the time being. TV-Tyrion at the moment seems to have picked up some of the plot of Barristan Selmy from the book and he also has Varys with him, so it's hard to say how much his actions are representative of his own character and indicative of his future plot in the book, as well as on the show - I guess we'll find out when the next book comes out.

[Chad32]

There's a lot of grey morality in Ice and Fire. Honestly I think she should stay with the Dothraki, and make a new legacy for her family, but I'm also pretty sure the dragons will be needed to defeat the white walkers, and keep Westeros from becoming frozen zombie land. I haven't really kept up with the books lately, but this whole idea of deserving a kingdom due to birthright isn't something I find important. I don't think she fits into either extreme on the black and white spectrum.

[SteelCurtain]

Book-Tyrion hasn't reached Daenerys yet and he's mainly preoccupied with his own survival, for the time being. TV-Tyrion at the moment seems to have picked up some of the plot of Barristan Selmy from the book and he also has Varys with him, so it's hard to say how much his actions are representative of his own character and indicative of his future plot in the book, as well as on the show - I guess we'll find out when the next book comes out.

Yeah, oddly enough he's joined the Second Sons with Brown Ben as the leader, and they are contracted against Daenerys. It's crazy to rehash ADWD and see how condensed some of these storylines are.

[SteelCurtain]

The very end of this Arianne Martell POV from TWOW sews seeds to this idea.