The Prodigal Son

[Homeless Nutter]

If The Prodigal Son story was set in the modern world - I'd say the father probably needs a kidney...

[Catholic_Lady]

First off, Thank you to everyone who has responded so far!

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Something tells me that you might be a parent! =)

1) Agreed. This is certainly a turning point. The job he found sucks pretty bad, and the way that "master" treats his employees doesn't even match the dignity of a hired worker, much less a human being. This reminds the son of how well his father treated his employees: "If I can't be his son anymore, maybe I could at least work for my dad as anyone else does." The better-job-*somewhere*, the son concludes, is his dad's place.

2) Exactly. 

3) HA!

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You might be right there. What do you think about the father telling the loyal son, "My son, you are here with me always; everything I have is yours."? Too little too late or an affirmation that the father shares more than just a fattened calf with him?

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Now here is a strange response to the story! =) Any thoughts about the story you already knew?

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Thanks, Chad!

I note you left out my reading. Is that because it struck too close to the bone?

Lol, I don't think so....

[paulpablo]

It sounds like an allegory that's supposed to be teaching some sort of lesson. I'm not really sure what the lesson is meant to be.

Something about forgiveness? Fairness?

It's the same story as the squirrel who saved his nuts vs the one who didn't who then scrounged off the squirrel who saved all his nuts.
The stories are responsible for a lot of people going on unemployment benefit (just kidding, and I stole that joke from Ricky Gervais)  The lesson is basically, mess around, squander your money, some family member or do gooder is bound to pick up the pieces.

[Adam Blackstar]

As for evangelization, I very much believe in St Francis' approach: "preach the gospel always, when necessary use words."

We are called to be a good example of Christian love, and in doing so, we draw others to Christ, or in other words, the Christian way of living - which is to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc etc. I must admit I fail miserably many times, especially recently with how grumpy and depressed I've been.  

To me, this forum is not any more or any less a place to "evangelize" as any other. It is not the reason I am here.

Basically I read that to say "I believe we should be good human beings."  I've only been here a few days, but based on what I've come to know of other atheists since my deconversion, I think most would share your sentiment.  Respectfully, I think you're mistaken to think that being a good person is going to draw others to Christ.  It's more likely that it will just draw others to you.  The only people I know of who think that you need to be a theist to be good and loving are theists.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

It sounds like an allegory that's supposed to be teaching some sort of lesson. I'm not really sure what the lesson is meant to be.

Something about forgiveness? Fairness?

It's the same story as the squirrel who saved his nuts vs the one who didn't who then scrounged off the squirrel who saved all his nuts.
The stories are responsible for a lot of people going on unemployment benefit (just kidding, and I stole that joke from Ricky Gervais)  The lesson is basically, mess around, squander your money, some family member or do gooder is bound to pick up the pieces.

The Esau & Jacob and the prodigal son stories show that you can't trust your brother; he will steal your stuff and try to turn your father against you.

[Homeless Nutter]

As for evangelization, I very much believe in St Francis' approach: "preach the gospel always, when necessary use words."

We are called to be a good example of Christian love, and in doing so, we draw others to Christ, or in other words, the Christian way of living - which is to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, [...]

...hate the faggots, protect the pedos, torture the mentally ill, overpopulate the third world, impede social progress, etc, etc...

Basically I read that to say "I believe we should be good human beings." [...]

It's more like: "I believe we should be good human beings, while making sure everyone knows we belong to this particular religious organization, which has the monopoly on decency and morality."

[robvalue]

Evangelising has a track record of zero percent success anyway, at least since I've been here. If anything, it has cemented people's scepticism when coming out of religion when picked at by vultures.

I don't consider this thread evangelising. I don't really know what the point of it is, but I'm happy to answer honest and unloaded questions. I think Ignorant is wise enough not to expect people to convert on the basis of things like this. I'm not constantly waiting for the "gotcha" card with him, like I am with most theists I've tried to debate here.

I also can't accurately predict what he's going to say, which is a nice change too.

No it does have an affect, it is just that most of the time the people you plant the seed of doubt in don't change suddenly, many times it takes years. The guy that got me to start thinking will never know where I ended up. He didn't make me a sudden atheist. All he did was ask me "What if Jesus was just a man". Took me almost a decade from that point to finally call myself an atheist.

Lets not forget many of us here were once believers. It took someone to question us. So it isn't that debate does not work, it is simply most of the time you wont see whom you have affected because by the time they finally figure it out they may have long since moved on.

I don't call it "evangelizing", yea I am trying to convince. "evangelizing" makes it sound like a sales pitch. If you know you are right, why wouldn't you want to help other people get to those facts too?

But no, I don't think we need to "evangelize" like JWs nor should we.

Sure, but I was referring to theists evangelizing in this instance. Atheists don't tend to evangelize in my experiemcs; they tend to tackle theists who are bringing things to them, or they addres claims theists have made in the past. It makes sense; atheism is entirely a position of reaction.

I guess it's possible the theist preachers here have converted some poor hapless lurker with their spiel. I would be very surprised, if it was a genuine conversion and not just a confirmation.

[Catholic_Lady]

As for evangelization, I very much believe in St Francis' approach: "preach the gospel always, when necessary use words."

We are called to be a good example of Christian love, and in doing so, we draw others to Christ, or in other words, the Christian way of living - which is to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, etc etc. I must admit I fail miserably many times, especially recently with how grumpy and depressed I've been.  

To me, this forum is not any more or any less a place to "evangelize" as any other. It is not the reason I am here.

Basically I read that to say "I believe we should be good human beings."  I've only been here a few days, but based on what I've come to know of other atheists since my deconversion, I think most would share your sentiment.  Respectfully, I think you're mistaken to think that being a good person is going to draw others to Christ.  It's more likely that it will just draw others to you.  The only people I know of who think that you need to be a theist to be good and loving are theists.

Let me be clear that this is not at all what I am meaning to imply.

[robvalue]

We have discussed before who exactly "religious morality" is for. To whom are the positive aspects of it not already obvious?

So far, it appears to be psycopaths; people with no sense of empathy, and hence no inherent moral compass. Who else it is aimed at, I don't know. You can just as easily appeal to people's sense of empathy to explain why morality should be a certain way.

[Adam Blackstar]

We have discussed before who exactly "religious morality" is for. To whom are the positive aspects of it not already obvious?

So far, it appears to be psycopaths; people with no sense of empathy, and hence no inherent moral compass. Who else it is aimed at, I don't know. You can just as easily appeal to people's sense of empathy to explain why morality should be a certain way.

Of course then you get into the apologist assertion that ALL morality is religious morality because without God there would be no standard of good and we would all just be out mindlessly raping each other.