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Feelings aside, what would be the difference?
#11
RE: Feelings aside, what would be the difference?
(December 3, 2016 at 1:52 pm)KUSA Wrote: In 4 years from now, what would be the difference between a Trump America or a Hillary America?

I don't care to hear how much you hate him or her as that has been discussed to death. What would be real tangible differences in everything around you?

I'm sure the bigots around me will be more emboldened.

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#12
RE: Feelings aside, what would be the difference?
A Hilary America would have had less crappy consequences. That's will be the difference.
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#13
Feelings aside, what would be the difference?
(December 3, 2016 at 4:24 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: A Hilary America would have had less crappy consequences. That's will be the difference.


Care to get more specific?
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#14
RE: Feelings aside, what would be the difference?
Under Donald Trump, public education will be weakened significantly. Betsy Devos will continue to push for privatization and more charter schools--shifting public funding from public schools to more private ones (including religious schools barring SCOTUS not allowing it). For-profit primary and secondary schools will open--and refuse to be held accountable, and focus mainly on marketing much like we see with for-profit colleges. Their focus will be increasing enrollment, rather than providing a good education. Many of these effects will not truly be felt for several years.

Our environment will continue to degrade, as environmental regulations are thrown out in favor of economic benefits. With his new head of the EPA, more and more people will continue to deny human-made climate change. And they'll feel vindicated by Trump's choices.

Some manufacturing jobs will come back thanks to crony capitalism, but it'll cost a loss of jobs elsewhere as companies seek better deals for themselves. And many of the manufacturing jobs that return, will be gone again sooner or later.

The Deficit goes out of control as Trump cuts taxes for the upper class, but doesn't reign in spending. In fact he wants to increase spending, particularly on the military. On top of that he wants to do away with parts of the Affordable Care Act--but keep the parts he deems good. Which is great on the surface--but parts that he doesn't like offsets costs.

Then you have his tariffs. His solution to keeping jobs over here. Should he implement them, they'll essentially raise taxes on the lower and middle classes. The cost of living goes up--which has a negative effect on the economy because people will be spending less.

Abortion rights will be infringed upon. Roe v. Wade probably won't be overturned, but we'll see greater restrictions on abortion in order to drive abortion clinics out of the area.

FADA will be passed, which will allow discrimination against gays and lesbians as well as transgenders.

How would things be different Under Hillary?

We'd probably see a push for charter schools--which I still think is a bad idea. Their failure rate is unacceptable, and they don't improve performance. But we wouldn't likely see public schools ultimately weakened.

We'd see continued regulation for the environment, and as we take the lead other countries would soon follow. An area we might see real progress in.

Hillary probably wouldn't bring back those manufacturing jobs, but we might see an increase in the number of green jobs.

No Tariffs, no FADA, and abortion rights remain strong--probably even stronger.
The whole tone of Church teaching in regard to woman is, to the last degree, contemptuous and degrading. - Elizabeth Cady Stanton
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#15
RE: Feelings aside, what would be the difference?
Everyone's said everything I was going to say, so all I have to add is that Hillary would have been predictable. She's not very imaginative, she's not very inspiring, but in terms of stability, she would have done it by-the-book all the time. And I think that's the worst one could say about her.

More importantly though, she would've been able to appoint some good SCOTUS justices, and that's what really bothers me.

If Trump destroys the ACA, it's bad, but we can begin to work on getting it back in four years. If he fucks the environment during his term, we can begin to get it back in four years. Etcetera.

But his SCOTUS appointments are going to fuck us for decades to come. Trump is going to look at that and ask himself, "If I appoint this guy, how will it benefit Trump?" So imagine that; at least one, probably two, maybe even three Supreme Court Justices appointed by Donald Trump. A conservative 6-3 or even 7-2 majority.

There's good reason to be scared.
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#16
RE: Feelings aside, what would be the difference?
(December 3, 2016 at 4:37 pm)KUSA Wrote:
(December 3, 2016 at 4:24 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: A Hilary America would have had less crappy consequences. That's will be the difference.


Care to get more specific?

Well I'd go with "in every conceivable way". Where a choice is to be made Trump will always make the one that is worse for all concerned.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#17
RE: Feelings aside, what would be the difference?
(December 3, 2016 at 4:03 pm)Tonus Wrote:
(December 3, 2016 at 1:52 pm)KUSA Wrote: In 4 years from now, what would be the difference between a Trump America or a Hillary America?

I don't care to hear how much you hate him or her as that has been discussed to death. What would be real tangible differences in everything around you?

The most tangible difference might be economic, but I don't know how hard Trump is going to push to keep jobs in the USA and what mechanisms he will use.  Federal subsidies could boost the economy during his term(s) versus a likely recession/correction under Hillary.
.

I can tell you right now how much effort Trump will put into job and economic growth, nada. He's wedded to the supply side, trickle down bullshittery that the Chicago school have been peddling to governments since the CIA shot Allende and installed Pinochet.

Aside from the gay rights and healthcare problems already discussed, expect the US to get a lot colder of acountry for non WASPs over the next four years. I wouldn't be surprised if state governments in the midwest, south and rust belt get very close to full Jim Crow if the house is kept in 2018. Environmental protection will go out the window, expect open cast mining and mountain top removal in national parks. International cooperation will also go, alon with the few shreds of legal oversight stopping the FBI & CIA from becoming a modern day Stasi.

What else, oh yeah the military-industrial-congressional complex (Eisenhower's original wording) will become more powerful and corrupt, hoovering up more government money and accelerating th US's budget to where the USSR was c 1985. And we all know what happened after that.

(December 3, 2016 at 6:19 pm)Opoponax Wrote: Everyone's said everything I was going to say, so all I have to add is that Hillary would have been predictable. She's not very imaginative, she's not very inspiring, but in terms of stability, she would have done it by-the-book all the time. And I think that's the worst one could say about her.

More importantly though, she would've been able to appoint some good SCOTUS justices, and that's what really bothers me.

If Trump destroys the ACA, it's bad, but we can begin to work on getting it back in four years. If he fucks the environment during his term, we can begin to get it back in four years. Etcetera.

But his SCOTUS appointments are going to fuck us for decades to come. Trump is going to look at that and ask himself, "If I appoint this guy, how will it benefit Trump?" So imagine that; at least one, probably two, maybe even three Supreme Court Justices appointed by Donald Trump. A conservative 6-3 or even 7-2 majority.

There's good reason to be scared.

In terms of the environment we're pretty much at 11:59:59 on the clock for preventing runaway global warming. Environmental laws need to be more stringent than even the Dems are willing to contemplate. With Trump there's probably no hope for species survival.
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#18
RE: Feelings aside, what would be the difference?
(December 3, 2016 at 4:22 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I'm sure the bigots around me will be more emboldened.

I'm sure, as a look at the world at large already shows. Wherever rightwing populists are elected the goal posts of acceptable behavior are moved. You can observe that in the UK, where foreigners are attacked in the wake of the Brexit referendum, you can observe it in Hungary and you can observe it in Poland where foreigners or people believed to be foreigner are attacked or insulted in the streets.

People like that are emboldened by a head of state or a government singing their tune.
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#19
RE: Feelings aside, what would be the difference?
Honestly I don't trust Trump not to do what the last Republican did to us "stupid Americans", only on a grander scale. Which is declare gihad on its own people, scapegoat organizations that it itself created for such a purpose, and unite the population under crocodile tears and waving flags as we sign the last vestiges of our civil liberties away. I also think he could get away literally with murder in Times Square, and not have repurcussions because he's not planning on being a president. Personally I believe he's planning on pulling a Putin! He's clearly appointing people for a totaliarian regime. Censorship: ON. My own words on facebook and this forum could be the nail in the coffin  if the loss of medicare and medicaid don't just do me under. Any and all illusions of propriety will stop at some point. People will be rounded up and shot. If someone doesnt think that that can happen in the USA, fuck yeah it can, and if given the opportunity-- will. I've seen pure republican rule in Kansas and it really is close to third world conditions. Trickle down policy endimg up in huge income inequality, loss of infrastructure jobs and programs, police overwhelmed, lgbt in hiding, Elderly, disabled, and children pay the most, in their blood, ignorance, empty stomachs, and tears. Everyone else can go fuck themselves unless theyre willing to join a church for support services! Oh and no neighborhood is immune from gun shots, gang activity, or stabbinngs. I suspect Sundown rules to go into effect in small towns all across the country next year. 

Look at the world we live in. Why should we be immune? We aren't. Trump has globetrotted enough to see how convenient slaves are, so imagine all of the worst parts of it (ethnic cleansing, human labor, organs, and sex trafficking, terrorist groups, sharia law, etc.). Now multiply their awfulness times a hundred whilst the USA falls into a third world pit of its own version of that hell. Water will be a commodity, Trump will upgrade to a Platinum toilet seat, the only question is if global warming will affect his plans at all, and.. yeah. Oh yeah and Mexico. The Border states at least will be taken over by cartels, but thats my only postulation. The rest I truly believe to be in our future's gaze. 

With Hillary I think that the semblance of democracy would have been kept, the SCOTUS would at least be even, and the world would have had a slight chance at saving itself from this inevitable plunge into darkness that's about to happen. 

Then again, I am told that I'm a doomsayer.  Rolleyes
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!

Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.

Dead wrong.  The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.

Quote:Some people deserve hell.

I say again:  No exceptions.  Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it.  As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.

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#20
RE: Feelings aside, what would be the difference?
Hillary => America suffers
Trump => America + rest of the world suffers
Quote:To know yet to think that one does not know is best; Not to know yet to think that one knows will lead to difficulty.
- Lau Tzu

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