The Oppression Olympics

[Aristocatt]

Sorry, I just don't see how having ones basic needs being met means that someone can't have a legitimate grievance about their oppression.

Actually, you proved my point.  They aren't being denied the necessities of life.  They are being denied status, which is exactly what I was saying.  Oppression today means being low status.  You can live just fine on $50k a year,  but you'll never be high status with that income. 

Being "high status" is not a basic human right.  People are owed basic dignity and the necessities of life, but they are not owed high status.  Status is something that we compete for.  In my view, the Oppression Olympics is about people demanding high status even though they've nothing to earn it.  It's a way of competing for status, and a pretty crappy way if you ask me.

Just to clarify a law limiting the amount of income an African american can make, would not be oppressive?

[Amarok]

If the biggest issue you have to cry over is that someone "misgendered" you as a "she" instead of a "zie" you're not doing too badly honey.

Yeah, this isn't the oppression I'm ever talking about. This just requires a simple correction while I move on with my day. Is this the only complaint you hear from transgender people, though? How about:

1: Denial of access to treatment
2: Harassment and unfair treatment by police
3: High homicide rate
4: Lack of occupational protections and low chances of being hired in the first place
5: Heavily excessive mistreatment and abuse of transgender prisoners
6: Denial of housing options
7: Denial of loans

There's a few points to start you off that actually do matter. This isn't a competition, either. I want everyone to feel like they matter. Right now I don't seem to matter, and that is a problem.

This isn't some pointless hand-waving to get attention, either, because I hate attention. The only time I will bring this up is when people who mock me bring it up in the first place (that means people like you).

You got that right. The worst part of transphobia. Nah worst part of bigotry in general. Is the general lack of awareness. The general ignorance . And the general arrogance of bigots themselves .

[Jesster]

Just to point out, I may be totally wrong but I don't see Regina addressing you or all transsexuals.  The example was of someone who wants to be addressed by a gender neutral pronoun instead of being called she.  And pointing out that this, in and of itself, isn't exactly an example of harsh prolonged unjust treatment is pretty accurate.

Perhaps. What I saw was Regina pointing out how one group is legitimately oppressed, while pointing out one aspect of another group that makes them not oppressed. This is painting an unfair picture of the scenario, which is why I felt the need to fill in the blanks. I don't think Regina is oppressing anyone. I see this as someone turning a blind eye to the oppression that is happening.

[Amarok]

Yeah, this isn't the oppression I'm ever talking about. This just requires a simple correction while I move on with my day. Is this the only complaint you hear from transgender people, though? How about:

1: Denial of access to treatment
2: Harassment and unfair treatment by police
3: High homicide rate
4: Lack of occupational protections and low chances of being hired in the first place
5: Heavily excessive mistreatment and abuse of transgender prisoners
6: Denial of housing options
7: Denial of loans

There's a few points to start you off that actually do matter. This isn't a competition, either. I want everyone to feel like they matter. Right now I don't seem to matter, and that is a problem.

This isn't some pointless hand-waving to get attention, either, because I hate attention. The only time I will bring this up is when people who mock me bring it up in the first place (that means people like you).

Just to point out, I may be totally wrong but I don't see Regina addressing you or all transsexuals.  The example was of someone who wants to be addressed by a gender neutral pronoun instead of being called she.  And pointing out that this, in and of itself, isn't exactly an example of harsh prolonged unjust treatment is pretty accurate.

Nope to my knowledge she was addressing all trans

[paulpablo]

Just to point out, I may be totally wrong but I don't see Regina addressing you or all transsexuals.  The example was of someone who wants to be addressed by a gender neutral pronoun instead of being called she.  And pointing out that this, in and of itself, isn't exactly an example of harsh prolonged unjust treatment is pretty accurate.

Perhaps. What I saw was Regina pointing out how one group is legitimately oppressed, while pointing out one aspect of another group that makes them not oppressed. This is painting an unfair picture of the scenario, which is why I felt the need to fill in the blanks. I don't think Regina is oppressing anyone. I see this as someone turning a blind eye to the oppression that is happening.

Well yeh, I definitely don't think Regina is oppressing anyone.

It's not turning a blind eye to the oppression that is happening.  In the post it clearly points out that there's lots of real oppression that needs addressing.  And that IF your biggest problem is someone calling you she instead of a gender neutral pronoun then you don't have it to bad.

It wasn't stated that your biggest problem IS someone calling you the wrong pronoun, just that if that is your biggest problem you don't have it too badly.

Plus it doesn't  have to be a transsexual who's picky about pronouns so that really could be addressing anyone.

[Jesster]

Well yeh, I definitely don't think Regina is oppressing anyone.

It's not turning a blind eye to the oppression that is happening.  In the post it clearly points out that there's lots of real oppression that needs addressing.  And that IF your biggest problem is someone calling you she instead of a gender neutral pronoun then you don't have it to bad.

It wasn't stated that your biggest problem IS someone calling you the wrong pronoun, just that if that is your biggest problem you don't have it too badly.

Plus it doesn't  have to be a transsexual who's picky about pronouns so that really could be addressing anyone.

Then it would be nice if I didn't have to fill in the blanks all the time. That's all I'm saying.

[InquiringMind]

Just to clarify a law limiting the amount of income an African american can make, would not be oppressive?

Certainly such a law would be oppressive under the definition of oppression I gave, which is that oppression = low status.  But no such law exists.

If you want to continue your line of reasoning and say that there might was well be such a law because black people make less on average, then I respond with this: 

In a society where we all compete for status, there will always be winners and losers.  You can redistribute the winners and losers any way you want by any criteria you want, but there will aways be winners and losers.  Rather than trying to redistribute the winners and losers, which only leads to more fighting, and instead of striving for equality of result, which is impossible in a society where we compete for status, make the gap between winners and losers smaller.  Make winning a little less lucrative, and make losing a little less devastating.  You can redistribute the winners and losers any way you like, but you can't get rid of the winner-loser system.  So make the gap between winners and losers smaller.

[Aristocatt]

I'm on a phone, can't really give a full reply. So you accept that my example was an example of opression, and you accept that just because someone has all the basic necessities of life, that they can still be opressed?

[InquiringMind]

I'm on a phone, can't really give a full reply.  So you accept that my example was an example of opression, and you accept that just because someone has all the basic necessities of life, that they can still be opressed?

I feel like we're talking in circles here.  Yes, it is oppressive the same way that a bad snowstorm is oppressive.  I accept this form of oppression just as I accept the oppression that comes from a bad snowstorm, because neither high status nor good weather are fundamental human rights.

[Aristocatt]

Okay, cool.


The civil rights movement was awesome because it fought against the restriction of a fundamental right. I believe based on what you have said so far you would agree with this?

Between a bad snowstorm and restricting a fundamental right where would you put having a maximum wage on African Americans legislated morally speaking?